Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[ropetight]

It's been a long time but I'm pretty sure burst fire accuracy in Xcom vanilla was capped to 60%. Still, you were always better off firing a three round burst if you had the AP vs aimed shots since 3x60 was better overall than 1x95, and you only needed to tag an enemy once to kill them most times.

It's kinda why I think it's funny to compare the "hardcore"-ness of JA2 vs JA3, these are both games where your Rambo mercs can shrug off 3-5 shots no problem and heal up in a few days, vs. Xcom where 80% of hits are lethal and surviving still heavily gimps all stats and requires months to heal.

I could be referring to nuXCom, it was a long time since originals indeed.

JA is great as 80's action movie RPG with slightly more realism than Commando or Rambo (you have to worry about ammo and wounds).
It shifted focus to characters a bit more than XCom, so they are not... Expendables.

 

[ArchAngel]

Fuck! JA2 1.13 has million options to turn off or on but it does not have option to turn off chance of mercs not wanting to renew your contract if it falls within 3 days of ending.. I already lost 3 of them, all in irritating times because I cannot afford to give them 7 day contracts.. Then I hire another 1 day one, waste time waiting to arrive (and need to hold SAM sites in control so it does not come at starting area) and then renew all of them per 1 day when I can afford it.. and I only got 4 AIM mercs, none more expensive than about 2100 $ per day. I am day 16 now, I cannot go back to hiring 800$ crap mercs.. And some of them I have leveled up and trained into exactly what I need and then they just leave.. fuck.
I might need to turn on ability to make more IMP characters and hire more of those, this random chance is needless penalty when you are low on cash at start. I just got 2nd mine working in last few days and I am still waiting for it to get up to speed while wasting money on training militia for 2nd city/mine.

Yo, ArchAngel why don´t you go to any of the numerous threads about JA2 (1.13 or otherwise) on General RPG discussion like this one here and leave the JA3 thread to Ja3?

In that case I would have to leave you all here with your decline thread, at least I insert some talk about a good JA game from time to time and make thread Incline as a result

 

[spectre]

Yo, ArchAngel why don´t you go to any of the numerous threads about JA2 (1.13 or otherwise) on General RPG discussion like this one here and leave the JA3 thread to Ja3?

Eh, I say let him. He's only just discovered the best game in the genre and is trying to score some kool kredits by acting all OG grognard and shet.

 

[ArchAngel]

Yo, ArchAngel why don´t you go to any of the numerous threads about JA2 (1.13 or otherwise) on General RPG discussion like this one here and leave the JA3 thread to Ja3?

Eh, I say let him. He's only just discovered the best game in the genre and is trying to score some kool kredits by acting all OG grognard and shet.

I tried best mod in the genre, I put it off for years listening to all the decliners saying it is too complicated and shit. Then I waited to see if JA3 would be awesome to play that instead of 1.13..
But 1.13 inventory system and whole LBG system is fucking awesome. This is exactly the type of autistic inventory system I always wanted in TTG or RPGs.

 

[PanteraNera]

But 1.13 inventory system and whole LBG system is fucking awesome. This is exactly the type of autistic inventory system I always wanted in TTG or RPGs.

Absolutely.
I really hope that mods bring that into JA3.

I still think it is rather comical that the only other game that does it even better is Escape from Tarkov.

 

[Latro]

Yo, ArchAngel why don´t you go to any of the numerous threads about JA2 (1.13 or otherwise) on General RPG discussion like this one here and leave the JA3 thread to Ja3?

Eh, I say let him. He's only just discovered the best game in the genre and is trying to score some kool kredits by acting all OG grognard and shet.

I agree, we’re no longer a grognard forum. We’re happy consumers eager to wolf down the paltry popamole we once derided.

 

[ArchAngel]

Yo, ArchAngel why don´t you go to any of the numerous threads about JA2 (1.13 or otherwise) on General RPG discussion like this one here and leave the JA3 thread to Ja3?

Eh, I say let him. He's only just discovered the best game in the genre and is trying to score some kool kredits by acting all OG grognard and shet.

I agree, we’re no longer a grognard forum. We’re happy consumers eager to wolf down the paltry popamole we once derided.

And this and BG3 threads unfortunately prove it. At least most people shit on Diablo 4 like we should have.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I agree, we’re no longer a grognard forum. We’re happy consumers eager to wolf down the paltry popamole we once derided.

In fairness, many Codexers still detest the Baldur's Gate games, remaining true to the classic D&D/AD&D Gold Box adaptations, and perhaps also The Eye of the Beholder DM-likes, the two Dark Sun games, and a few other worthwhile games licensed by TSR.

 

[Lemming42]

Keep trying to come back to this game but something about the combat just feels unsatisfying, and the non-combat parts of the game are more of a hassle than fun.

Love the characters and voice acting so much that I keep trying anyway. MONICA SONDERGAARD MOVING.

 

[spectre]

Keep trying to come back to this game but something about the combat just feels unsatisfying, and the non-combat parts of the game are more of a hassle than fun.

I can feel that. Having to re-do all the starter shit just feels like too much of a bother.

When it comes to combat, I think it's all the little bits adding up.
Stamina is out of the picture, which doesn't sound like a big deal, but in JA2 friendlies and enemies became more exhausted from wounds and as the fight dragged on,
even sometimes collapsing. I think it added that bit of oomph to the way firefights played out. As it is, wounds no longer seem to deteriorate anyone's
performance all that much, unless it applies a status effect.
Then there's no more rushing to get bandaged up because bleeding out is no longer a constant threat and even if you're all shot up, it'll get quickly doctored up.
It's like the stakes are no longer there, they even did away with crows and corpses (I think an npc makes a comment on this),
which isn't terribly important, but still served as that grim reminder that it's not all fun and games.

In fundamental terms, in JA2 you didn't even want to get touched by a bullet because stat loss from critical hits was scary, and here,
you even have a perk (imo, these were a mistake) that lets you dish out more damage by running around wounded.
Correct me if I'm wrong, cause it just occurred to me and I can't be bothered to check, but it seems that the mercs no longer comment about bullets nearly missing them.

Then there's stuff like enemies being conveniently divided into classes, telling you exactly who does what in the next turn - another unnecessarily "gamey" thing.
Also, could be just me, but reaction shots and overwatch all feel very mechanical, it's like somebody else is doing the shooting and not you.
Makes it feel wooden and automatic.

Then there's the matter of sneaking being completely flat (seriously, they're all blind and deaf in Africa, pick a perk and wear camo and it feels like cheating),
night combat not being much different from daytime, etc. I could go on a bit more, but no point.

 

[Beowulf]

In fundamental terms, in JA2 you didn't even want to get touched by a bullet because stat loss from critical hits was scary, and here,
you even have a perk (imo, these were a mistake) that lets you dish out more damage by running around wounded.
Correct me if I'm wrong, cause it just occurred to me and I can't be bothered to check, but it seems that the mercs no longer comment about bullets nearly missing them.

You are right - they don't. Because near misses don't do anything. There is no area suppresion, it is only applied as a status effect from flashbangs, AR's auto-fire and MG's long bursts. And perhaps shooting your enemies in the groin, but I might have mixed it with a different status effect.
That's the biggest mechanical difference from JA2 - the fights in Arulco felt more organic, but in Gran Chien they are more mechanical due to the perks and special statuses usage.

 

[ArchAngel]

In Incline news 1.13 is crazy! I liberated top left SAM site and Mine and game sent a stack of 69 (!) soldiers at me.
And I didn't even get a chance to fill them all with militia. At least I got additional free Merc there that is part of 1.13 mod and it seems I will need to let that mine fall and do some partisan tactics by waiting for the stack to split up. I got a decent 8 man squad now and I can take on 15 or so enemies without casualties unless I get unlucky.

If I can keep this mine I can finally hire a small team of top mercs to start clearing right side of the map south of Dressen.

 

[spectre]

You are right - they don't. Because near misses don't do anything. There is no area suppresion, it is only applied as a status effect from flashbangs, AR's auto-fire and MG's long bursts. And perhaps shooting your enemies in the groin, but I might have mixed it with a different status effect.
That's the biggest mechanical difference from JA2 - the fights in Arulco felt more organic, but in Gran Chien they are more mechanical due to the perks and special statuses usage.

Well, they didn't do that much in vanilla JA2, iirc they actually unlocked in a later 1.13 build, making machineguns actually worth a damn.
But at least it registered in the system. That's tangent anyway, I was more about the overall feel it produced.

That's what you get when your system is based on Firaxis' excom and only very loosely on the game you're allegedly remaking.
Cue: modern gamers wouldn't get it, so that's why we did it like this, I mean ffs, that's almost 25 years ago, most of them weren't even alive.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Meh. I'd rather have suppression that works like a status effect than no suppression at all.

 

[Beowulf]

You are right - they don't. Because near misses don't do anything. There is no area suppresion, it is only applied as a status effect from flashbangs, AR's auto-fire and MG's long bursts. And perhaps shooting your enemies in the groin, but I might have mixed it with a different status effect.
That's the biggest mechanical difference from JA2 - the fights in Arulco felt more organic, but in Gran Chien they are more mechanical due to the perks and special statuses usage.

Well, they didn't do that much in vanilla JA2, iirc they actually unlocked in a later 1.13 build, making machineguns actually worth a damn.
But at least it registered in the system. That's tangent anyway, I was more about the overall feel it produced.

That's what you get when your system is based on Firaxis' excom and only very loosely on the game you're allegedly remaking.
Cue: modern gamers wouldn't get it, so that's why we did it like this, I mean ffs, that's almost 25 years ago, most of them weren't even alive.

I might be remebering wrong, but in vanilla JA2 characters could be forced to lower their stance and lose some AP's for their incoming turn that way. Better suppression system was indeed introduced in 1.13 or NAS, or whatever it was before they combined the features.

 

[spectre]

I might be remebering wrong, but in vanilla JA2 characters could be forced to lower their stance and lose some AP's for their incoming turn that way. Better suppression system was indeed introduced in 1.13 or NAS, or whatever it was before they combined the features.

Yeah, it worked to some extent. I've also haven't played vanilla in ages, but it was lowering the stance and spending the required AP in the process. What it did was fudging with interrupts and AP carryover to next turn,
but was nowhere near as crippling as it should. What it really needed to feel like an actual thing was allowing the AP to go into the negative, which meant guys without leftover AP would still be affected
and that the regular AP pool for the next turn was also affected.

 

[ArchAngel]

I might be remebering wrong, but in vanilla JA2 characters could be forced to lower their stance and lose some AP's for their incoming turn that way. Better suppression system was indeed introduced in 1.13 or NAS, or whatever it was before they combined the features.

Yeah, it worked to some extent. I've also haven't played vanilla in ages, but it was lowering the stance and spending the required AP in the process. What it did was fudging with interrupts and AP carryover to next turn,
but was nowhere near as crippling as it should. What it really needed to feel like an actual thing was allowing the AP to go into the negative, which meant guys without leftover AP would still be affected
and that the regular AP pool for the next turn was also affected.

I am playing 1.13 "stable" version from 2014 and I have noticed my characters AP going into negative even when not getting hit so I guess suppression does work.

 

[gogis]

In Incline news 1.13 is crazy! I liberated top left SAM site and Mine and game sent a stack of 69 (!) soldiers at me.
And I didn't even get a chance to fill them all with militia. At least I got additional free Merc there that is part of 1.13 mod and it seems I will need to let that mine fall and do some partisan tactics by waiting for the stack to split up. I got a decent 8 man squad now and I can take on 15 or so enemies without casualties unless I get unlucky.

If I can keep this mine I can finally hire a small team of top mercs to start clearing right side of the map south of Dressen.

At least don't pretend that that AI is any superior. 69 scrubs in early game is analogous to nigger faction in JA3

Zerg rush! Yes, they are climbing into fullauto

 

[Yosharian]

Brothers I have started a Steam page here:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3017444441

Feel free to tell me how shit my builds are

 

[Strange Fellow]

Voluntarily giving yourself 5 wounds for +50% damage seems like an extremely shitty idea since a sniper will oneshot most guys anyway.

 

[Yosharian]

Voluntarily giving yourself 5 wounds for +50% damage seems like an extremely shitty idea since a sniper will oneshot most guys anyway.

I guess so, I'm sorry that I didn't go Free Runner + Frogleaping like every other sniper build.

It's just about having fun dude. Tossing a frag grenade with +50% damage into an enemy squad from Stealth sounds fun to me.

You still have 70 HP which is enough not to get one shot IMO

 

[Strange Fellow]

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware there was a meta and that I was advocating it

I can see how that would be fun, yes. I suppose that build will reach some absurd damage numbers.

 

[Yosharian]

Well shit, it looks like the damage doesn't apply to grenades. Sigh. I might change it now.

 

[Modron]

Feel free to tell me how shit my builds are

Do you really need all that dex, and marksmanship? Those two stats just kind of build on their own across the game without much any effort on your part (even agi is fairly easy to cheese).

 

[Abu Antar]

Nothing wrong with the builds. It's a matter of taste, really.