KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[Desiderius]

Rogues need INT to get casts on their spells, but hard to beat Mantis Rogue and there you’re stuck with 14 max, which is why your Wiz/Warlock ends up needing to cover the Searching for a bit at least.

 

[Desiderius]

Psi with 20 INT gets a couple dialogues so maybe I was searching with that. Can’t remember.

 

[Serus]

Rogues need INT to get casts on their spells, but hard to beat Mantis Rogue and there you’re stuck with 14 max, which is why your Wiz/Warlock ends up needing to cover the Searching for a bit at least.

Sure he does but casting spells is not what Rogues are about. You tell me that you pump INT instead of physical stats on a rogue? Mind you, i haven't played with a rogue so i have no practical knowledge but i always thought that you use rogue spells as secondary rogue tool, for buffs and if needed try a low DC spell. This is how i planned mine at least. You tell me that some people use Rogue as spellcaster first and pump INT, not DEX?

 

[Mauman]

Sure he does but casting spells is not what Rogues are about. You tell me that you pump INT instead of physical stats on a rogue? Mind you, i haven't played with a rogue so i have no practical knowledge but i always thought that you use rogue spells as secondary rogue tool, for buffs and if needed try a low DC spell. This is how i planned mine at least. You tell me that some people use Rogue as spellcaster first and pump INT, not DEX?

Evidently yes as rogues can use scrolls (even spells they don't normally get), and the game provides a shit ton of them. There's evidently an argument that this is more effective than going for sneak attacks (I don't know if this is true). Also, they have at least one spell that goes all the way up to 20d6 damage.

My point was if a rogue could find everything that an elf could. Sources are vague if elf searching and rogue (with high int) search are the same or different. Elf stats suck as others have mentioned. I'd prefer not to have one.

 

[Serus]

Sure he does but casting spells is not what Rogues are about. You tell me that you pump INT instead of physical stats on a rogue? Mind you, i haven't played with a rogue so i have no practical knowledge but i always thought that you use rogue spells as secondary rogue tool, for buffs and if needed try a low DC spell. This is how i planned mine at least. You tell me that some people use Rogue as spellcaster first and pump INT, not DEX?

Evidently yes as rogues can use scrolls (even spells they don't normally get), and the game provides a shit ton of them. There's evidently an argument that this is more effective than going for sneak attacks (I don't know if this is true). Also, they have at least one spell that goes all the way up to 20d6 damage.

My point was if a rogue could find everything that an elf could. Sources are vague if elf searching and rogue (with high int) search are the same or different. Elf stats suck as others have mentioned. I'd prefer not to have one.

Obviously you CAN make a rogue spellcaster first but what would be the point? You'd end with a weak spellcaster + weak melee damage dealer. This my question.

From what I saw in my 1.5 playthroughs what counts the most is the Search stat which is simply INT + bonus from race (elf, dwarf, half elf) and rogue IIRC. At least in my half play (with an elf) the only difference i saw compared to a playthrough without an elf when it comes to search for secrets/additional loot was the need of Search high enough to overcome the DC. Elf wizard starts with 22 (usually) and there are some 22DC search checks early. Later it doesn't matter, you can boost your int. In other words, if you have a high enough INT rogue - you are good to go. However some others finished the game a bazillion of times so their info might be better.

 

[Pink Eye]

Wait. Why would you play a Rogue as a spellcaster? Just roll a Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, or anything else. Rogues are mostly martials with spells to compliment their combat capabilities. As is evident with Sneak Attack, Uncanny Dodge, and Crippling Strikes; plus the feats which further empower them, such as Greater Dodge. I like Rogues primarily because of Mirror Image and other nice buffs that Monk, Fighter, or other Martial can't get access to. They also make good duel wielders or duelist who uses free hand to throw the odd chromatic orb or fireball.

 

[Desiderius]

Oh for fuck sake. You do both.

Most of the spells are buffs anyway but yeah you also do the scrolls. And of course you rely on Sneaks - with four light weapons you pick up three extra swings with each two-weapon feat.

But you only get those on a full attack. Burning a scroll or casting a spell is a Standard Action. Cast + Move or Full Attack.

Just took down Sal boss in one round with the help of the Grease I cast the previous round before hanging it up for awhile.

 

[Desiderius]

You eventually get the Fast Spells Feat but I like Greater Feint first to set up Sneaks.

 

[Serus]

Are you... ah, no sorry, it's you Desi. Are you now in the "Captain Obvious" phase, then?
Of curse you "do both"... for fuck's sake...
The point was that you can't max two stats at the same time. DUH! And casting or fighting doesn't use the same stats or feats. Adding to int OR dex at level up is already not "doing both equally" but doing "one more than the other". Same with feats, especially on Archmage since Rogue isn't exactly rich in additional feats.

<double facepalm>

 

[Pink Eye]

Oh for fuck sake. You do both.

Yes, but the question still remains. Why would you use them as a *pure* spell caster. Which is what this guy is saying:

There's evidently an argument that this is more effective than going for sneak attacks

You're using a class that doesn't get that many specialized feats for it compared to any other spell oriented class.

 

[Dorateen]

I've also gotten use out of our rogue as a backup range attacker. Especially nearing the end, I now have two characters in the party with Rapid Shot (Ranger and the Rogue). That has been great for taking down the mirror images of enemy spell casters, along with the fights around the castle with enemies positioned on the wall.

 

[Desiderius]

Oh for fuck sake. You do both.

Yes, but the question still remains. Why would you use them as a *pure* spell caster. Which is what this guy is saying:

There's evidently an argument that this is more effective than going for sneak attacks

You're using a class that doesn't get that many specialized feats for it compared to any other spell oriented class.

The question was why would you boost INT. I answered because Mantis starts at 14 and that's just a little too low. A little DEX won't be missed that badly since the Sneaks are generating so much damage and there is no DEX to Dam. And you start with 20.

 

[Pink Eye]

Ah. I see. You were talking about something else, as was I. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Sacibengala]

Maybe this is in the interest for people wanting to adapt the classic modules into KotC2 https://www.artstation.com/jonpintar/store Pretty maps made based on the TSR era maps.

 

[Mortmal]

Maybe this is in the interest for people wanting to adapt the classic modules into KotC2 https://www.artstation.com/jonpintar/store Pretty maps made based on the TSR era maps.

Yeah but no one doing that, community too small, for reasons explained an hundred of time.

 

[Darth Canoli]

<goes into cahoots with bandits>
<extorts merchants with fake documents>
<sells copy of document to obviously evil bastard>
<gets money promised from bandits the next day>
<turns on bandits, kills them>
<turns in bandit body for bounty>

This game is great :D

Nice, I never tried that since you can't align with Yanos (well, he throws you in a pit naked either way), looked like the evil path wasn't this interesting (same for the witch's cave, evil way gives a lesser reward).
Aside from the demon's quest from the tavern, I don't think many evil choices pay off.

Sure he does but casting spells is not what Rogues are about. You tell me that you pump INT instead of physical stats on a rogue? Mind you, i haven't played with a rogue so i have no practical knowledge but i always thought that you use rogue spells as secondary rogue tool, for buffs and if needed try a low DC spell. This is how i planned mine at least. You tell me that some people use Rogue as spellcaster first and pump INT, not DEX?

Since most of the rogue's spells are buffs, he doesn't need more than 13/14 INT anyway.
The Rogue is a killing machine against anything not immune to crits, which is a lot of ennemies and with four weapons, you can always pick/make one efficient against those (slimes mostly) or just use him to tank then.

I've also gotten use out of our rogue as a backup range attacker. Especially nearing the end, I now have two characters in the party with Rapid Shot (Ranger and the Rogue). That has been great for taking down the mirror images of enemy spell casters, along with the fights around the castle with enemies positioned on the wall.

Using rapid fire to get rid of mirror images when with a mantis rogue, high movement and self true seeing works better.

 

[Desiderius]

What’s evil about it lol?

Turnabout is fair play.

 

[Darth Canoli]

What’s evil about it lol?

Turnabout is fair play.

My point exactly, what an evil thing to say...

 

[Jermu]

Please hurry up Pierre I want to play again

 

[Mauman]

Please hurry up Pierre I want to play again

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/3183487463215080980/

This is a good link to read. Using this and one of the youtube videos listed in the comments I got the game working again.

edit - So you don't have to look up the app/depot/manifest numbers

.\DepotDownloader.exe -app 1233530 -depot 1233531 -manifest 1823549824689465694 -username XXXX -password XXXXXX (where the XXXX stuff is your steam account info)

Only thing not listed in the instructions (though it was in the comments of one of the youtube vids) is that you might need to download .Net runtime

https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/download/dotnet/6.0/runtime?initial-os=windows

This of course assumes you're using steam. I think GoG has baked in rollback features.

 

[Jermu]

Hi all! Here is version 1.40 of KotC 2. It's a small update. Here's the list of changes:

• Fixed a source of crashes when recruiting a new companion and summoning a creature This bug was introduced in version 1.39. My apologies for that! Anytime there's a bad bug like that, please email me at enquiries@heroicfantasygames.com
  That's the quickest way for me to fix the issue. I heard about the bug only today (thank you Juhani!!).
• Fixed a problem in the High Sewers script about the buried treasure of the Sharkman Druid
• Fixed an issue with the free trip attempt conducted as part of an Attack of Opportunity or Ready Versus Approach command.
• Expanded the in-game chart of damage rolls according to each size category.
• Fixed the help for the Death Knight special ability ' Conviction ' in the Feats & Abilities tab of the Character Sheet.
• Added some code to accelerate gameplay during combat. I haven't finished doing this. I'll add more optimisation code in coming updates.

Thank You, Stalwart Knights And Puissant Wizards! Take care! ^_^

 

[Butter]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1233530/view/4822806821990281069

Knights of the Chalice 2 Version 1.40
Hi all! Here is version 1.40 of KotC 2. It's a small update. Here's the list of changes:

• Fixed a source of crashes when recruiting a new companion and summoning a creature. This bug was introduced in version 1.39. My apologies for that! Anytime there's a bad bug like that, please email me at enquiries@heroicfantasygames.com. That's the quickest way for me to fix the issue. I heard about the bug only today (thank you Juhani!!).
• Fixed a problem in the High Sewers script about the buried treasure of the Sharkman Druid.
• Fixed an issue with the free trip attempt conducted as part of an Attack of Opportunity or Ready Versus Approach command.
• Expanded the in-game chart of damage rolls according to each size category.
• Fixed the help for the Death Knight special ability 'Conviction' in the Feats & Abilities tab of the Character Sheet.
• Added some code to accelerate gameplay during combat. I haven't finished doing this. I'll add more optimisation code in coming updates.

Thank You, Stalwart Knights And Puissant Wizards! Take care! ^_^

 

[Darth Canoli]

One thing that rattles me is the Barbarian's rage "fix", I didn't even report it because I thought it was a compensation while waiting for the Barbarian revamp.
Limited rage makes the Barbarian (in its actual form) not worth picking.

 

[Dorateen]

I finished Augury of Chaos and wanted to share a couple of thoughts. These are things I had been contemplating, but I intended to complete the module first. Of course, this commentary does not apply to Archmage or Ironman runs, which are an entirely different level of play meriting its own discussion and analysis, and deservedly so. Rather, I wanted to look at the game design in general.

Going back to the Fantasy World Engine's development, this is a system that allows players to create powerful characters and build powerhouse parties. It is 3.5 Dungeons & Dragons on steroids. Consequently, I think when Augury of Chaos was being put together, it became necessary to make super monsters and super villains to threaten such statistical super men. This is why we get ungodly creations like Queen Sattram, why enemies have waves of reinforcements arriving or devils conjured in the middle of battle. The engine includes spells like Prismatic Void, and other magic of mass destruction, which required combat with dozens of opponents in order to make these tools relevant. Did Pierre go overboard with encounters in some places? Perhaps, but I have to respect the sheer audacity of difficulty thrown at the player, and it made for a unique exercise in patience and perseverance.

One of the reasons Augury of Chaos has its justifiably earned reputation as a hardcore computer role-playing game is due to the restrictions on resting. However, I found there are a number of factors that now mitigate this to an extent. The introduction of Finchbury content makes Chapter 1 a more relaxed exploration. The climactic encounter of the Chapel was not an issue if you are running fifth level characters by that time. As soon as you reach the sewers, there are rest spots available, even with limitation as well as one you can use continually. Notwithstanding isolated death snare scenarios, in the High Sewers I thought the availability of rest spots was generous. Furthermore, since the earliest updates there were options to allow recovery of hit points after every battle and there are legitimate feats that do the same. I had a stockpile of astragalus, which restores all of a character's spell slots. I know the purpose of restricting resting is to create some tension, but with all the consumables and scrolls, I never felt I was in danger of running out of resources. And there was not any encounter I could not take on at full strength, if I wished. All this made me wonder if a more traditional resting system was implemented, would it have even made a difference.

Augury of Chaos is a fun adventure with an interesting dungeon complex. Again, Finchbury puts everything in context, giving the module a proper beginning and ties it all together by the end. The character/party building is sublime. I'm looking forward to The Dark Arena module.

 

[Butter]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1233530/view/3320856891222480325

Knights of the Chalice 2 Version 1.41
Hello everyone! KotC 2 version 1.41 is here.

On this occasion, I've just created a new app branch named 'previous' for KotC 2 on Steam (thank you Nicola for the suggestion!). I'll put the last stable version in there in case the latest version has game-breaking bugs.

To access the 'previous' branch, please right click on KotC 2 in your Steam library then click on 'Properties'. Then click on the tab labelled 'Betas'. Then click on 'previous'.

However, I recommend just playing with the latest version. Simply let me know by email at enquiries@heroicfantasygames.comif there's a serious problem with the latest version, please. Thank you!!

Here's the list of changes in version 1.41:

• Added some code to accelerate gameplay during combat. That's still a work in progress but you should notice some improvement when moving through the effect of Stinking Cloud and other terrain spells.
• Added a transparency effect on character sprites when they're standing within a magical cloud.
• The Barbarian's Rage will now grant a +2 bonus to Willpower saving throws (+3 with Greater Rage and +4 with Mighty Rage). Also updated the in-game help entry of the Barbarian class to reflect this.
• Started work on the selection of Barbarian spirit animals during character creation. Please note: they don't do anything yet. But you can already check out their help entries. Feel free to comment on the spirit animals.
• You can no longer use the Ranger's Critical Shot ability against targets that are immune to Critical Hits.
• Fixed the spell school of the Necromancy spell Dominate Undead.
• A Burdened character will no longer be able to move items from a Bag of Holding to any of the inventory slots.
• The game will now display character Hit Points on top of sprites if the option to display the HPs in combat is turned on.
• Fixed a bug with the Bishop's feat Extra Turning.
• Fixed a bug preventing you from casting the Druid spell Summon Efreeti when you have immunity to fire damage.
• Fixed a rare bug with dialogue answers containing the name of an NPC.
• Added a link to the condition 'Dying' in the help entry for the feat Die Hard.
• Added extra tooltip information in the second page of Character Creation when mousing over the ability scores.
• Fixed a sprite issue in the second page of Character Creation.
• Fixed a scrolling issue in the stairway ambush of the Tutorial Adventure.
• Fixed a broken link in the help entry for the Energy Shield condition.
• Fixed a typo in the help entry for Perfect Balance.
• Fixed a typo in the help entry for Halflings.

Best Regards, Noble Paladins And Wise Mages! Enjoy!