KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[Serus]

I would suggest you start with Hearkenwold, it's much better paced and better optimized than AoC and plays a bit like Goldbox era open world CRPGs. I am enjoying it immensely.

Whereas AoC is more akin to a high level, high magic linear gauntlet.

Once you've mastered those then you're ready for the Tutorial.

Good one and true, there are some fights in the "tutorial" that are among the most difficult in the game. This is the genius of Pierre Begue at work, make tutorial so hard that no player, when doing main campaign, will annoy him about the game being too difficult! Don't get me wrong, Pierre IS a genius, he made single-handedly two of the best CRPGs made after 2000. However he is also a genius almost of an idiot-savant kind. I think if Cleve got his own parody character in a CRPG, Pierre should get one too at some point.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I would suggest you start with Hearkenwold, it's much better paced and better optimized than AoC and plays a bit like Goldbox era open world CRPGs. I am enjoying it immensely.

Whereas AoC is more akin to a high level, high magic linear gauntlet.

Once you've mastered those then you're ready for the Tutorial.

Good one and true, there are some fights in the "tutorial" that are among the most difficult in the game. This is the genius of Pierre Begue at work, make tutorial so hard that no player, when doing main campaign, will annoy him about the game being too difficult! Don't get me wrong, Pierre IS a genius, he made single-handedly two of the best CRPGs made after 2000. However he is also a genius almost of an idiot-savant kind. I think if Cleve got his own parody character in a CRPG, Pierre should get one too at some point.

He's already got a Codex button...

Spoiler

 

[nimateb]

been playing this after I bought it on release date, its pure coke. The start was shaky IMO with all these fucking little stones and herbs to collect, but then the fights begin. I love blowing shit up with my psionic dude.

 

[Mauman]

Trying to make a party for Hearkenwold that will be able to join every guild.

Is it just me or does the Champion feel REALLY lackluster? It's two counterparts (Mage Knight and Storm Warrior) feel like they have their own niche, yet Champion doesn't feel like it has anything.

The alternative is a Paladin. I've had misgivings about them but I'm beginning to feel like maybe I should take a look at one instead.

edit - oh, out of curiosity, how important is search in Hearkenwold?

 

[Desiderius]

Trying to make a party for Hearkenwold that will be able to join every guild.

Is it just me or does the Champion feel REALLY lackluster? It's two counterparts (Mage Knight and Storm Warrior) feel like they have their own niche, yet Champion doesn't feel like it has anything.

The alternative is a Paladin. I've had misgivings about them but I'm beginning to feel like maybe I should take a look at one instead.

edit - oh, out of curiosity, how important is search in Hearkenwold?

I made a Champ in main game as placeholder until I picked up Pal companion. Pal is most survivable class (and can make other characters more resilient in proximity) other than maybe late Monk so you’ve got somebody standing to rez. Changes the way you play a little if you’ve got one.

Champ covers Word of Honor (I think that’s what it’s called?) dialogues and Grapples pretty well IIRC while covering some of the buffing and healing/curing so Cleric can cast offensively. Full BAB with medium spell progression is solid deal.

 

[Mauman]

Trying to make a party for Hearkenwold that will be able to join every guild.

Is it just me or does the Champion feel REALLY lackluster? It's two counterparts (Mage Knight and Storm Warrior) feel like they have their own niche, yet Champion doesn't feel like it has anything.

The alternative is a Paladin. I've had misgivings about them but I'm beginning to feel like maybe I should take a look at one instead.

edit - oh, out of curiosity, how important is search in Hearkenwold?

I made a Champ in main game as placeholder until I picked up Pal companion. Pal is most survivable class (and can make other characters more resilient in proximity) other than maybe late Monk so you’ve got somebody standing to rez. Changes the way you play a little if you’ve got one.

Champ covers Word of Honor (I think that’s what it’s called?) dialogues and Grapples pretty well IIRC while covering some of the buffing and healing/curing so Cleric can cast offensively. Full BAB with medium spell progression is solid deal.

Champ just feels....off, I guess? Mage knight can become a touch spell specialist with unlimited spells. Storm Warrior can stack a shit ton of lightning damage. Champ....can run 30 feet in plate? Cast with a tower shield? I guess that's ok? It just doesn't seem that interesting in comparison to what the other hybrids can do.

As for spell casting, I've noticed that Paladin get's many spells WAY earlier than the champ by virtue of the sheer schizophrenia of the 4 spell level spell caster lists. And because of the "unique" spell stat stacking of Paladin I don't feel like I'm going to miss on number of spells that much either. Plus the whole "15 foot +2 AC, +2 willpower, +4 relfex vs breath/gaze, plus whatever" bit appeals to me I suppose.

I'm going to go with Paladin.

 

[luj1]

Trying to make a party for Hearkenwold that will be able to join every guild.

You can join every guild regardless of party composition - if you can find a sponsor

Is it just me or does the Champion feel REALLY lackluster? It's two counterparts (Mage Knight and Storm Warrior) feel like they have their own niche, yet Champion doesn't feel like it has anything.

Each of them is completely different

The alternative is a Paladin. I've had misgivings about them but I'm beginning to feel like maybe I should take a look at one instead.

Can recommend Death Knight

edit - oh, out of curiosity, how important is search in Hearkenwold?

What do you mean?

 

[Mauman]

Trying to make a party for Hearkenwold that will be able to join every guild.

You can join every guild regardless of party composition - if you can find a sponsor

Can recommend Death Knight

edit - oh, out of curiosity, how important is search in Hearkenwold?

What do you mean?

1. You can? I was under the impression that certain guilds would only take in certain classes (like the joining the thieves' guild requires a bard or rogue for instance). Did I misunderstand or was it changed or something?

2. I mean, does Hearkenwold have search checks for hidden treasures, doors, compartments, etc....like the base game.

 

[Desiderius]

Can recommend Death Knight

The buff v debuff war rages on.

The nice thing about Pal is it can (with skillful play) free you from the tyranny of initiative checks.

 

[Desiderius]

Champ just feels....off, I guess? Mage knight can become a touch spell specialist with unlimited spells. Storm Warrior can stack a shit ton of lightning damage. Champ....can run 30 feet in plate? Cast with a tower shield? I guess that's ok? It just doesn't seem that interesting in comparison to what the other hybrids can do.

As for spell casting, I've noticed that Paladin get's many spells WAY earlier than the champ by virtue of the sheer schizophrenia of the 4 spell level spell caster lists.

Been awhile since I played but IIRC it takes a little while for Pal to really get up to speed?

Speaking of speed, the difference between 20 and 30 ft is pretty damn large, and the difference between 10 and 20 even larger if your Champ is a slow race. Don't necessaily need to get to spells faster if you're using your slots to free up offensive slots/actions on Bishop/Cleric. Buffing with a Tower is in fact nice to have too, as is the elemental protection spells as move action so you can double up. I think I mainly did CMs (Bonus Feats help there) with shielded character since damage is lower than two-handers can do. The added mobility is nice there too. But main thing was covering Word of Honor which is hard to get otherwise, unless of course you're just running Pal anyway.

 

[Dorateen]

Mauman

I also prefer Paladin over Champion. As long as you have one of them in the party, you can join the associtated guild. The spread of classes is so large in KotC2 (22 classes!) that it is very likely a player would have each guild covered. An exception would be for example is you did not take either Paladin or Champion, or if you did not take a Cleric or Bishop, or a Rogue or Bard, etc.

Search is used in the module. A character who has that skill will get the opportunity to notice things in conversations, here and there. I would not say it is super important.

 

[Serus]

Mauman

I also prefer Paladin over Champion. As long as you have one of them in the party, you can join the associtated guild. The spread of classes is so large in KotC2 (22 classes!) that it is very likely a player would have each guild covered. An exception would be for example is you did not take either Paladin or Champion, or if you did not take a Cleric or Bishop, or a Rogue or Bard, etc.

Search is used in the module. A character who has that skill will get the opportunity to notice things in conversations, here and there. I would not say it is super important.

Not having Paladin or Champion is easy to "achieve" though. In fact, if only two classes allow to join a guild or whatever then considering the amount of classes it is likely to NOT have them. You basically got it backward. Unless i misunderstood your post. To be clear - i don't believe it is a bad thing, just that it is - it's

 

[Dorateen]

Mauman

I also prefer Paladin over Champion. As long as you have one of them in the party, you can join the associtated guild. The spread of classes is so large in KotC2 (22 classes!) that it is very likely a player would have each guild covered. An exception would be for example is you did not take either Paladin or Champion, or if you did not take a Cleric or Bishop, or a Rogue or Bard, etc.

Search is used in the module. A character who has that skill will get the opportunity to notice things in conversations, here and there. I would not say it is super important.

Not having Paladin or Champion is easy to "achieve" though. In fact, if only two classes allow to join a guild or whatever then considering the amount of classes it is likely to NOT have them. You basically got it backward. Unless i misunderstood your post. To be clear - i don't believe it is a bad thing, just that it is - it's

It's not one guild, though. There are six different guilds. They are organized based on classes. There was originally a guild for each of the following:

Paladins, Clerics, Rangers, Thieves, Fighters, and Wizards

Because KotC2 introduces many more classes, they are grouped accordingly.

Paladins and Champions can join the Paladin Guild
Clerics and Bishops can join the Cleric Guild
The Ranger Guild is available for Rangers, Druids, and Storm Warriors.
There are about seven different martial classes (including Death Knights, Barbaraians, Gladiators) and they can join the Fighters Guild.

The player can join any or all of the guilds, as long as they have the required class in the party.

That's just an overview. I agree that the Paladin guild is probably the most exclusive. Do many players not take a cleric or a bishop? If so, then yes, they would be locked out of the cleric guild, too.

For the purpose of the module, a player only needs to join one guild. But depending on party composition, more can be available.

 

[luj1]

The player can join any or all of the guilds, as long as they have the required class in the party.

My bad

Just remembered there was one guild I could not join as I didnt have a paladin/champ

 

[luj1]

Anyone know how to return unique class powers (such as domain powers or Death Knights touch) to quickbar once you have removed them?

For example when I use Turn Undead from the left drop down menu, it DOES go back to the quickbar

But domain powers DO NOT EXIST in the left drop down menu, therefore I am stumped on how to add them to quickbar again

 

[Mauman]

Mauman

I also prefer Paladin over Champion. As long as you have one of them in the party, you can join the associtated guild. The spread of classes is so large in KotC2 (22 classes!) that it is very likely a player would have each guild covered. An exception would be for example is you did not take either Paladin or Champion, or if you did not take a Cleric or Bishop, or a Rogue or Bard, etc.

Search is used in the module. A character who has that skill will get the opportunity to notice things in conversations, here and there. I would not say it is super important.

Thanks for the reply. That answers my questions.

 

[Nutmeg]

Is this game a complete product yet or is it still in development, getting milked with DLCs etc?

 

[Grauken]

Is this game a complete product yet or is it still in development, getting milked with DLCs etc?

You can't milk if you're unable to produce DLCs

 

[Reinhardt]

Pierre wouldn't be able to milk even real cow, he would probably try to negotiate for roots with her instead.

 

[Serus]

Is this game a complete product yet or is it still in development, getting milked with DLCs etc?

It de facto is. There are 2 more campaigns planned/worked on, but those look more like sequels to me. In fact I think Pierre would be better financially selling them as KotC3 and KotC4, they will contain new stuff anyway. If you are not sure if you can safely play KotC2 now - you certainly can.

 

[Serus]

Is this game a complete product yet or is it still in development, getting milked with DLCs etc?

You can't milk if you're unable to produce DLCs

To be fair, I am thankful that Pierre is above such things as mere financial profits and making DLCs. It adds to the old school vibe - in a good way. After all there wasn't such things as DLCs in the past. I, for once, miss those times. Especially when I look at Paradox's games steam pages, lol. Imagine KotC2 with 2/3 of the classes behind DLCs. Or a series of DLCs called: "Better AI for <name of monster>", lol.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Is this game a complete product yet or is it still in development, getting milked with DLCs etc?

This latest campaign is full package level 1 to the end

he is making 3 more campaign in the same engine but those 3 will be 1 - 20 in total

 

[mediocrepoet]

Is this game a complete product yet or is it still in development, getting milked with DLCs etc?

You can't milk if you're unable to produce DLCs

To be fair, I am thankful that Pierre is above such things as mere financial profits and making DLCs. It adds to the old school vibe - in a good way. After all there wasn't such things as DLCs in the past. I, for once, miss those times. Especially when I look at Paradox's games steam pages, lol. Imagine KotC2 with 2/3 of the classes behind DLCs. Or a series of DLCs called: "Better AI for <name of monster>", lol.

You think the guy who wrote a book on libertarian economics and who didn't want to put games on Steam because he didn't want to give them a cut, so just buy it from my website so I can get 100% of it is "above mere financial profits"?

Not just like... bright and talented, but so autistic he can't see the forest for the trees and makes terrible business decisions?

 

[Grauken]

he can't see the forest for the trees

happens when you always look down for roots

 

[JarlFrank]

There are 2 more campaigns planned/worked on

Three actually.