Decline Now that the dust has settled, can we admit that Disco Elysium is decline?

[Theldaran]

Of course, social justice games and, in this case, games that mention communism sell because there's a big pool of people eager to read about that. How big? It depends, on how much they annoy the rest of the world (maybe the rest of the world joins forces to destroy them, quite literally). Remember that nothing is set in stone and maybe some SJWs end up being hard capitalists in the future! One thing is spreading propaganda outside of power and another altogether is steering a country!

We can agree that these people are annoying because they always feel the need to inform us of their agenda (virtue signalling). When will people react with the old adage, "shut up, hippie!", and when will that be socially accepted?

 

[Verylittlefishes]

I'm getting tired of people who only saw COCOCOCOCOCOCCOOMMMUNIZMMMMM in this game, while probably not even playing it. Unwatch for a while.

 

[thesheeep]

I'm getting tired of people who only saw COCOCOCOCOCOCCOOMMMUNIZMMMMM in this game, while probably not even playing it. Unwatch for a while.

Yeah, this is just the usual "communism bad" - Pavlov's dog, really. Same with anything having to do with China getting an immediate "China bad!" reaction. Many Westerners are pretty well conditioned, with very little incentive to think for themselves.

Sure the game has communism as one of many, many topics it tackles, but so what? It sure doesn't display it as anything better than the rest. It gives you the option to argue in favor of it as well as the opposite.
There's no big deal here.

As for the game being decline: ????
Hell, no.
This is probably the first visual novel that I'm actually having fun with. Most likely because it is not just a visual novel, but mixes in RPG and adventure gameplay - lifting it up to actually being a game.
Of course it does fall kinda flat if you try viewing it only as an RPG as the gameplay here is minimal. You really just walk around, click objects and through enjoyable-to-read dialogues - not even in a CYOA way - and those dialogues react strongly to the character you have built.

I would say Disco Elysium is possibly the first visual novel where the genre name is not an insult.

However, it is also a showcase of how aiming for replayability via character builds does not mix well at all with a narrative focus.
I can see most people doing two playthroughs of this, at max, and on the second one they'll just skip the majority of the content and only read the parts reacting to their different character. But 90% of the game will be the same - not much of an incentive to replay.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Disco Elysium, the game, doesn't advocate communism.

Anyone claiming that it does is a victim of functional illiteracy, if he has played the game at all.

The developers flashing communist propaganda, however, is very bad taste.

 

[Van-d-all]

Iseeing as how many people consider Fallout 3's writing to be good

Er... fake news, surely?

Here's an example of a 2 hour video that got 5M views of a guy explaining why Fallout 3 is the best Fallout and people seem to like it and agree.

People tend to agree with what they'd like to hear, and that is "it's OK to like F3". A a sad, uninformed opinion, which, very much like the love for FNV, mostly stems from the fact those people were subject to the series in FPP form first, then at best, tried to play the classic F1 & 2 but never got in too deep because of it's presentation & interface. Even the ones that actually finished them to admit 1 & 2 were superior despite having played them after F3, will still complain about things no one gave a fuck when the games were released in the '90s.

 

[Theldaran]

Visual novels are good for what they are, they certainly don't aim to please a wide audience and therefore shouldn't and wouldn't be enjoyed by just everyone.

Visual novels are to games what anime are to Western shows. A vehicle to drop anime themes and anime tropes. From time to time one of them manages to break free of the mold, and is celebrated for it. The wide majority is just same old, as with any genre really. But first and foremost, you have to like the genre somewhat. Also visual novels aren't a genre per se, but a whole medium with several subgenres (horror, romance, supernatural, mystery, etc). Or at least that's what the experts say.

 

[FeelTheRads]

It gives you the option to argue in favor of it as well as the opposite.
There's no big deal here.

Myeah, except whenever you go against communism or whatever else agendas the developers had it feels like it's done in a sarcastic way. Maybe I don't read it right, who knows.
Oh and you literally have an NPC saying that you just want rich people to get richer if you don't want to kill people in the name of communism. Literally the retarded commie stereotype and I'm not sure that was making fun at the stereotype. I mean, I'm not sure commies are able to laugh at themselves. Rarely anyone who's so much into an ideology is able to laugh at themselves.

But, regardless if this pushes communism or not, the fact is that it's focused so much on political bullshit that it turns everything sour. A good setting and a potentially good detective story wasted of fucking political memes. Yeah, I hate communism in particular, but I'm not really interested in discussing any of the political crap in the game, especially not with some NPCs.

So yeah, I'm not sure what's the reason behind all that political crap, if not agendas. It was not only unnecessary, but also feels hamfisted. Seemingly out of nowhere I get bombarded with random questions on where I stand on some political issues and out of nowhere have my "subconscious" telling me that I'm suddenly a follower of this or that. Speaking of which, I must either be an extremist centrist or the game really just cycles through all them, no matter what you do through the game, just trying to make you pick one or something.

 

[thesheeep]

But, regardless if this pushes communism or not, the fact is that it's focused so much on political bullshit that it turns everything sour. A good setting and a potentially good detective story wasted of fucking political memes. Yeah, I hate communism in particular, but I'm not really interested in discussing any of the political crap in the game, especially not with some NPCs.

Well, the game is all about discussing politics and philosophies (and other, weirder stuff), with your inner voices and the NPCs, so this just makes it abundantly clear the game is not for you.

It is a hard game to tell beforehand if you are gonna like it or not.
Even if you like games with lots of writing, the topics might not be for you.

Maybe part of this is selling the game a bit wrong.
While the story is indeed a detective story, I found it only an interesting backdrop to all the discussions you can have with the various characers (from pretty down-to-earth to extremely exaggerated ones, with probably more on the latter side).

I could also see the exaggeration in the characters not being everyone's cup of tea. But for me, that is exactly what I want. If I just wanted normal peasants with average lives, I'd probably play more KC: D.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Well, the game is all about discussing politics and philosophies

Yeah, but why? Why couldn't it have been a detective story in a weird setting? Why all the political crap? What exactly does it add to the game?
Why do I even have to decide whether a boss asking out and employee is good or bad. Yes, I know in the end it turns out that the woman was not upset about it, doesn't change the fact that you get this random crap thrown in. And that the "correct" options (that it's VERY BAD) are along the lines of "what the hell man, you shouldn't do that" and the "wrong" options are in the lines of "hurr im a drunk, misogynistic asshole so i see no problem with it". But yeah, sure, no agenda pushing whatsoever in this game.

Also:

Request memes with Nick Dybowsky-Virgin and Robert Kurvitz-Chad.

Is that Kurvitz?

If so, then lol at thinking that thing could ever make it as the chad in a meme. He even comes with the virgin posture by default.

 

[Alphons]

Iseeing as how many people consider Fallout 3's writing to be good

Er... fake news, surely?

Here's an example of a 2 hour video that got 5M views of a guy explaining why Fallout 3 is the best Fallout and people seem to like it and agree.

The man talks sense.

I never get the hate for FO3 as an individual game. I get the hate in regards the decline, but as a game itself it's a fine, once-through experience. Lacks the choice & variation required to make it worth replaying, but I found it a good, solid 7/10 experience.

I agree with his statement "it's OK to like FO3" and he has some good points throughout the video, but as someone that watched his previous Gamebryo Fallout videos it's not hard to notice how he contradicts himself several times across the video.

It's hard to believe that he likes FO3's interactivity and consequences, when in his FO3 Kill Everyone he runs around slaughtering entire towns, only to return 3 days later to laugh at respawned characters that forgot he killed them.

Not to mention that in the same series, in literally first 10 minutes of the first episode he says that FO3 railroads you in MQ, wanting you to be a good guy working with BoS.

 

[V_K]

Is that Kurvitz?

Yes, on the left.

 

[Theldaran]

Oh and you literally have an NPC saying that you just want rich people to get richer if you don't want to kill people in the name of communism. Literally the retarded commie stereotype and I'm not sure that was making fun at the stereotype. I mean, I'm not sure commies are able to laugh at themselves. Rarely anyone who's so much into an ideology is able to laugh at themselves.

TBH that would be just a character in the middle of it all, but those things tend to be highlights of what the writer(s) want to convey. For example, in Enemy at the Gates (that tells the story of probably the most important battle of the Great Patriotic War) there are several puns against the concept of Marxism, so it's a movie about a Soviet hero that debuffs the Soviet myth (!)

In The Eagle Has Landed, you see how the German paratroopers fall to the last man trying to accomplish their mission, you see how their commander behaves like a gentleman (portrayed by Michael Caine no less), and you see the other face of Germany when the Colonel in charge of the operation is shot up because of failure (a thing that was pretty real).

Of course, The Eagle Has Landed is a classic and a good movie and it belongs to a time with more nuances and less railroading (and I do believe that people did think more back then on average). It doesn't fall to the easy peasy thing of, "we won the war, therefore all Axis fighters were rabid dogs and lowly killers".

 

[Strange Fellow]

Oh and you literally have an NPC saying that you just want rich people to get richer if you don't want to kill people in the name of communism. Literally the retarded commie stereotype and I'm not sure that was making fun at the stereotype.

Pro gamer tip: attempting to read authorial intent into everything will ruin entertainment for you. Absolutely ruin it.

 

[thesheeep]

Yeah, but why? Why couldn't it have been a detective story in a weird setting? Why all the political crap?

Because that's what the developers wanted and enjoyed to do?
What kind of absurd question is this?

Why did Fallout 1 + 2 not feature more midget porn?
Why does Age Of Decadence not address the pressing questions of air- vs. fat frying?
...

I get that you are frustrated about it somehow, but, dude, just chill and accept that it is not for you.

 

[AwesomeButton]

All this discussion is just prompting me to continue writing my review of DE I last got stuck on the combat system section...

 

[NJClaw]

Oh and you literally have an NPC saying that you just want rich people to get richer if you don't want to kill people in the name of communism. Literally the retarded commie stereotype and I'm not sure that was making fun at the stereotype. I mean, I'm not sure commies are able to laugh at themselves. Rarely anyone who's so much into an ideology is able to laugh at themselves.

You literally have an NPC saying that every single race is inferior to his own and that members of a particular race are all pedos.
You literally have a character that can answer to almost any question saying that the only thing he believes in is the free market and that anyone who is against the free market should be terminated.

You need to be blind not to see that they are portraying that character as the retarded commie stereotype on purpose. You say that "rarely anyone who's so much into an ideology is able to laugh at themselves", but here it is you who are so much into your own "anti-commies" ideology that can't take a joke for what it is.

 

[Theldaran]

Anti-commie just means the rejection of what communism embodies. And because of its failures that were real. Not because bigotry. Unlike some things the commies throw at us.

I really thought people from the East would be fed up with comm. by now, but it never ceases to amaze.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Sometimes it feels like one person or another here never developed basic reading comprehension skills, and actually belongs in twitter, yet persists in trying to play RPGs. Let's go back to grade school:

Activity 1: Using literature to develop critical thinking: Drawing inferences from a text
Activity 1

The term critical thinking suggests the idea of not readily accepting any given viewpoint. In terms of school students reading a literary text, critical thinking would involve asking why or how questions about the text: why has the writer used this character as the hero?/why is the story narrated in the first person?/how does the climax resolve the conflict? Engaging critically with a text implies not taking anything at face value; it means inferring the different meanings underlying a text.

In this activity, students will practise their inferential skills by reading excerpts of literary texts critically to try to discover the underlying meanings and themes in the text. To prepare them for this activity, you need to give them some practice in inferring information not directly said or given. Play the extract, or read the transcript, given in Resource 1, and ask the accompanying questions. The students should explain their answers. Then have a discussion on the answers to the questions, bringing to the students’ notice the strategies they had to use to come up with the answers. Tell them that such questions are called inferring questions and that they help us understand the underlying meanings of a text.

After some practice, give the students the main activity, which gives them practice in drawing inferences from a literary text. Put the students in pairs and distribute copies of a short literary text (you can use a prose text from their English course book or any passage from an actual piece of literature meant for adolescents). Each partner must think of three inferential questions to ask the other. Then each pair should select their best question, and ask the rest of the class for the answer. The pairs will take turns to ask a question until the whole class has had a chance to present. The students will have to support their answers by quoting related sections from the text. You could note down three of the best questions, and have a discussion on how these questions best bring out the theme(s) of the text and any underlying meanings. Ask your students to use the language expressions used for inferring, such as I feel the underlying meaning of the novel is…/In my opinion the focus of this piece…/In the climax of the novel, the actual message is…, etc. This exercise will expose them to the underlying meanings of a text and will prepare them to read and enjoy original and more challenging pieces of literature.

To make this activity more interesting, put the students in small groups and ask them to think of opposite arguments to the events described in the extracts: If the author had written this in the first person…/The main character in this play dies in the end… Then ask them to think of an opposite viewpoint to the one expressed in the text they have just read. They should then write a short paragraph, changing the story by changing the main character/climax/storyline/beginning, etc., to make the story more interesting. Give them about 30 minutes to write and present their story from this new perspective.

http://orelt.col.org/module/unit/5-facilitating-critical-thinking-through-literature

 

[Jenkem]

Request memes with Nick Dybowsky-Virgin and Robert Kurvitz-Chad.

SILENCE!

Dybowski creates actual video game art while Kurvitz chases kitsch and cash. Based Nikolay desires neither.

 

[Viata]

combat system

 

[Alphons]

combat system

He propably bought it on GoG when it was bundled with Underrail.

I'd also have to stop if I had to review Underrail in one paragraph.

 

[Roguey]

Is that Kurvitz?

This is Kurvitz. Actually a a bit of a looker imo.

 

[overly excitable young man]

Is that Kurvitz?

This is Kurvitz. Actually a a bit of a faggot imo.

ftfy

 

[AwesomeButton]

combat system

He propably bought it on GoG when it was bundled with Underrail.

I'd also have to stop if I had to review Underrail in one paragraph.

Wow, look at Mr. Serious there!

 

[V_K]

Is that Kurvitz?

This is Kurvitz. Actually a a bit of a looker imo.

And here he is unphotoshopped: