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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

Desiderius

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I haven’t had any instability. Seems pretty stupid for Nexus to disallow Github. Most of the best modders are there and Modfinder is smooth.
 

LannTheStupid

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I haven’t had any instability. Seems pretty stupid for Nexus to disallow Github. Most of the best modders are there and Modfinder is smooth.
It's not about Nexus allowing or disallowing something. It's about modders who think of themselves as holier than thou who decided to boycott Nexus after they perceived that their "creator rights" are hurt.

Seriously, only Stalin and Khrushchev knew how to manage so called "creative persons".
 
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Desiderius

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I don’t know shit about what GitHub even is but the modders (including Vek) said that Nexus changed their policy in a way that made it incompatible with stuff produced on GitHub.

Given the utter clusterfuck that Nexus has become on the user end I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. Vortex UI is indecipherable. Can’t tell how to do anything or what it’s even trying to accomplish. It was already nearly impossible to get it to work with CotW.
 

LannTheStupid

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I don’t know shit about what GitHub even is but the modders (including Vek) said that Nexus changed their policy in a way that made it incompatible with stuff produced on GitHub.

Given the utter clusterfuck that Nexus has become on the user end I’m inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. Vortex UI is indecipherable. Can’t tell how to do anything or what it’s even trying to accomplish. It was already nearly impossible to get it to work with CotW.
The last thing I know is that Nexus decided to remove the right to recall mods that are included into Nexus "collections". And that is what made the current shitstorm among so called "creators".

I don't know what is the Vortex UI you are using. For me Nexus is as good - or as bad - as it was before. They added annoying banners for their mod collections that are sometimes in the way - but that's it. There are still endorsements, sorting by them, plethora of filtering options and all this jazz.

And I will not believe a word from a person who thinks his rights are infringed by Nexus.
 

Desiderius

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Vortex is the Nexus mod manager (previously known as Nexus Mod Manager when it was relatively straightforward and worked).

ModFinder is the equivalent that the GitHub gang uses now. Automates checking for updates/changelogs and installs.
 

InD_ImaginE

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I don’t know shit about what GitHub even is but the modders (including Vek) said that Nexus changed their policy in a way that made it incompatible with stuff produced on GitHub.

Nah it's just as lann said, the whole Nexus drama is due to Nexus basically changing their user policy, namely now Mod Creator can't wholly delete their mods from Nexus because it might be used for Collection feature (mostly for Bethesda games). A lot of modder are explicitly not using Nexus due to that. Some other modders doesn't care (e.g. ToyBox, Character Option Plus, Homebrew Acrhtype or even CotW for KM) and still upload them to Nexus.

The problem with GitHub is that it is not really a good place for modding because there is not list of available mods, and you need to scroll stuff from Discord chat. Dedicated site like Nexus, you can sort by Update Time, divide by category (not much of an issue in WotR I guess with low number of mods availble).
ModFinder
Yes I know this exist, but this will only function as far as the maker updating it. Other games had some people making this "online mod browser app" in the past for other games and lot of them just died.
 
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So I chose Rupture Restraints for Daeran, as he's the guy who removes debuffs. It's ideal for the party healer to never be out of action. Turns out his curse that causes him to be Staggered at the beginning of combat counts, so every third engagement all of its per day uses are burned up.
:rage:
 
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Github would make mod sharing and developing much more convenient than Nexus, but Nexus has a financial interest in becoming the only platform for modding, so there's that.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Github would make mod sharing and developing much more convenient than Nexus, but Nexus has a financial interest in becoming the only platform for modding, so there's that.
except it makes mod sharing an utter ass

with no centralized database you end up having to scroll discord, a fucking chatting apps, to find new mods or just to know what is even available. Development sure, but in the end most of the time it is just the same solo dev making their own mods vs a big collaboration

why they don't use something like Moddb I don't understand. This i'll just use github is pretty annoying shit.
 

Grunker

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Desiderius Lann is absolutely correct on this one. The Nexus drama is almost solely about retarded diva modders complaining that their free hosting service made a reasonable and long time coming policy change.

And anybody complaining over Nexus usability needs to watch a video of a layman trying to download a mod from GitHub
 

LannTheStupid

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Vortex is the Nexus mod manager (previously known as Nexus Mod Manager when it was relatively straightforward and worked).
Ah, I see. When I checked it last time (which was several years ago) Nexus Mod Manager was primitive, but not bad.

ModFinder is the equivalent that the GitHub gang uses now. Automates checking for updates/changelogs and installs.
And this clashes with my paranoia and Owlcat Games policy of QA. I really do not want an in-game mod to look for in-game mods. I would prefer not to deal even with the Unity Mod Manager. And from this point of view changing an external resource to an internal mod is idiotic.

However, it does not invalidate your preferences, because you are correct that there is always a point in the update cycle where the game becomes as stable as it could be, and mods become more or less safe to use.
 

Desiderius

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ModFinder isn’t ingame.

I open it before loading Steam. It has a list of about 20 mods (I’m using about half of them) and lets you know when updates are available. You can see changelog/description with one click, and you can (usually) update with one click too.

GitHub isn’t easy to use either for non-modders, so nice to have a front-end to help.
 

LannTheStupid

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ModFinder isn’t ingame.

I open it before loading Steam. It has a list of about 20 mods (I’m using about half of them) and lets you know when updates are available. You can see changelog/description with one click, and you can (usually) update with one click too.

GitHub isn’t easy to use either for non-modders, so nice to have a front-end to help.
OK, I admit I was wrong - but you missed a little, too.

So, indeed, ModFinder is a separate tool. It does not require the game to be running.

However, to be able to function ModFinder requires Unity Mod Manager (UMM) to be installed and to run the game with it at least once. The reason for this is clear: the feature "Drag zips here to install" is literally "Drop zip files here" from Unity Mod Manager. ModFinder either uses the API UMM provides or calls UMM in the background. And this is the problem for me: UMM window is shown when I start the game, and this is what the UMM writes in its log:
[18:59] Game changed to 'Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous'. [18:59] Game folder 'Pathfinder Second Adventure' not found. [19:00] Game has extra library 0Harmony.dll in path J:\gog games\Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous\Wrath_Data\Managed\0Harmony.dll. [19:00] ======================================= [19:00] Deleting files from game... [19:00] 'winhttp.dll' [19:00] 'doorstop_config.ini' [19:00] Copying files to game... [19:00] 'winhttp_x64.dll' [19:00] 'doorstop_config.ini' [19:00] Copying files to game... [19:00] 0Harmony.dll [19:00] dnlib.dll [19:00] UnityModManager.dll [19:00] UnityModManager.xml [19:00] Creating configs... [19:00] Config.xml [19:00] Installation was successful.
So it does add shared libraries into the game installation. Which means that when the game is launched it has additional code in its memory that is not directly from Owlcat Games. Which is OK for most of the people, but it is not OK for me, as I severely doubt Owlcat Games ability to keep their game working and I don't want to add anything else to Owlcat's own bugs.

TL;DR: ModFinder is a separate application, but to use it you need to modify your game. And it is OK - until it is not.

P.S.: So ModFinder is the case of
Other games had some people making this "online mod browser app" in the past for other games and lot of them just died.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Scorcher of Souls, Nexus, and Drezen:

Scorcher info.jpgScorcher 2.jpg

This is the optional boss in the Mines after Baph that you have to Dimension Door to get to. Main drop is +2 STR book.

Seelah 19 Scorcher 64 Reflex.jpg

It is 33 HD. Guess I remember it being difficult because last time I was here my MC was melee and it does a lot of damage each time you hit it. Prot eats first batch but doesn't last long at 86 damage with made save and DR.

Lann 19 Mount AB vs Sorcher.jpgLAnn 19 Mount damage breakdown.jpg

Lann's horse getting there. Using TTT pet adjustment to tabletop (weaker than Vanilla, full pet only lvl 15 here).

Lann 19 destroying Scorcher 81 AB.jpgLann 19 destroying Scorcher.jpg

Lann at Nomad 19 rounding into shape. Two big ranged hitters get around the Fire Shield. MC never got a hit in.

Seelah 19 Enforced Vogir.jpg

Lann's Enforced Vigor finally shows up. White Dragon Armor isn't a reliable source. He can fire off a Quick Stone Call to turn it on if necessary.

Nenio 19 Weird Nexus defense.jpg

Nenio taking out the trash back at the Nexus. Looks like I forgot to turn on Save DC Gaze so only 42 instead of 45 DC.

Van Aeon 19 Minagho first hit.jpgVan Aeon 19 killing Minagho.jpgLann 19 Mount attk.jpg

Clearing out Drezen without short buffs. Aeon Bane does a great job helping iteratives land. Minagho finally dead.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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ModFinder isn’t ingame.

I open it before loading Steam. It has a list of about 20 mods (I’m using about half of them) and lets you know when updates are available. You can see changelog/description with one click, and you can (usually) update with one click too.

GitHub isn’t easy to use either for non-modders, so nice to have a front-end to help.
OK, I admit I was wrong - but you missed a little, too.

So, indeed, ModFinder is a separate tool. It does not require the game to be running.

However, to be able to function ModFinder requires Unity Mod Manager (UMM) to be installed and to run the game with it at least once. The reason for this is clear: the feature "Drag zips here to install" is literally "Drop zip files here" from Unity Mod Manager. ModFinder either uses the API UMM provides or calls UMM in the background. And this is the problem for me: UMM window is shown when I start the game, and this is what the UMM writes in its log:
[18:59] Game changed to 'Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous'. [18:59] Game folder 'Pathfinder Second Adventure' not found. [19:00] Game has extra library 0Harmony.dll in path J:\gog games\Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous\Wrath_Data\Managed\0Harmony.dll. [19:00] ======================================= [19:00] Deleting files from game... [19:00] 'winhttp.dll' [19:00] 'doorstop_config.ini' [19:00] Copying files to game... [19:00] 'winhttp_x64.dll' [19:00] 'doorstop_config.ini' [19:00] Copying files to game... [19:00] 0Harmony.dll [19:00] dnlib.dll [19:00] UnityModManager.dll [19:00] UnityModManager.xml [19:00] Creating configs... [19:00] Config.xml [19:00] Installation was successful.
So it does add shared libraries into the game installation. Which means that when the game is launched it has additional code in its memory that is not directly from Owlcat Games. Which is OK for most of the people, but it is not OK for me, as I severely doubt Owlcat Games ability to keep their game working and I don't want to add anything else to Owlcat's own bugs.

TL;DR: ModFinder is a separate application, but to use it you need to modify your game. And it is OK - until it is not.

P.S.: So ModFinder is the case of
Other games had some people making this "online mod browser app" in the past for other games and lot of them just died.
I don't use the drag zip here in ModFinder. It doesn't work, so I guess I don't have UMM running? Usually there's a button to update mods that are on the list automatically. I did have to manually update one that wasn't working.
 

LannTheStupid

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I don't use the drag zip here in ModFinder. It doesn't work, so I guess I don't have UMM running? Usually there's a button to update mods that are on the list automatically. I did have to manually update one that wasn't working.
You cannot run ModFinder without installing UMM. UMM installs a set of dll's into your game. DLL is a code library that is loaded into the memory with the game. Which means your game has code that is not from Owlcat. Which is harmless in 99% cases, until it is not.
 

LannTheStupid

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Another question.

Is Crusader's Edge better than Bless Weapon? Considering that the Covenant of the Inheritor already makes all the party weapons good-aligned, and demons (it seems) are immune to the nauseated condition - even if it does not come from poison.

Whereas Bless Weapon just autoconfirms criticals against demons, which for the weapon like Grave Singer is huge.
 

Desiderius

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Bless Weapon is Pal exclusive (with a couple exceptions from Domains I think) and Crusader's Edge gives +2 to hit (stacking Enhancement bonus that doesn't care about +5 limit) and +2d6 Force damage.

Did they fix the auto-Sicken in vanilla? TTT fixes the Nauseated immunity but that only happens on crit plus failed save anyway. Auto-confirm on Bless is good for crit-fishing so depends what difficulty/class you're playing. Edge should be always up if you've got the slots and qualifying weapons (Pet attacks count, but Monk Fists don't).
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Bless Weapon is Pal exclusive (with a couple exceptions from Domains I think) and Crusader's Edge gives +2 to hit (stacking Enhancement bonus that doesn't care about +5 limit) and +2d6 Force damage.

Did they fix the auto-Sicken in vanilla? TTT fixes the Nauseated immunity but that only happens on crit plus failed save anyway. Auto-confirm on Bless is good for crit-fishing so depends what difficulty/class you're playing. Edge should be always up if you've got the slots and qualifying weapons (Pet attacks count, but Monk Fists don't).

Bless Weapon is only on Pal spell list, but its not limited to Personal use.
If you have a Paladin, with Greater Enduring spells you can easily keep it up on the entire party.
 

Desiderius

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That's a bad idea for several reasons.

Greater Enduring is two Mythics. You won't have enough casts for whole party unless you also burn one on Abundant. It's only necessary for spiking (crit-fishing) and is already min/lvl which is plenty by midgame. There are other great spells at that level you want to keep slots for (Veils, Divine Favor). I use it but don't spam it and certainly don't blow Mythics facilitating it.

I don't find Enduring to be a good fit with the challenges presented by this setting, but on Pal it's really bad since several key Pal spells are already long-lasting. The convenience piece is easily added via mod.

If you aren't using Seelah you can give her Scribe Scrolls to still have access to it.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
That's a bad idea for several reasons.

Greater Enduring is two Mythics. You won't have enough casts for whole party unless you also burn one on Abundant. It's only necessary for spiking (crit-fishing) and is already min/lvl which is plenty by midgame. There are other great spells at that level you want to keep slots for (Veils, Divine Favor). I use it but don't spam it and certainly don't blow Mythics facilitating it.

I don't find Enduring to be a good fit with the challenges presented by this setting, but on Pal it's really bad since several key Pal spells are already long-lasting. The convenience piece is easily added via mod.

If you aren't using Seelah you can give her Scribe Scrolls to still have access to it.

I see what you mean, Desiderius. Its a better trade if you make your paladin your Shield dispenser, for example. Which is not a great RP fit, I suppose. Having perma-Bless Weapon is damn convenienent though.
It also doesn't hurt to have those Veils and such last 24 hrs as well.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Veils are already 10min/lvl. It never runs out in normal play already. Pal isn’t a great Shield dispenser with the lower CL. You really never get a ton of casts without Abundant, tho it’s a good Mythic for vanilla.

Extra first lvl casts go to Divine Favor once she hits CL 9. Unbreakable Heart is nice to have up too (can get same function from a mercy I guess). I do put Bless Weapon on Seelah due to her maluses in this run and it’s really good on ZA Lann with the Perfect Strikes and tons of not that high AB attax.

Cam/Grave Singer is nice target but there is a lot of competition for those slots otherwise.
 

Elttharion

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Apparently this will be part of the new humble bundle, but just the base game without the DLCs. Are any of them worth playing?
 

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