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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

gurugeorge

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Strap Yourselves In
I suppose whether the crusades thing annoys you or not depends on how invested you are in the immersion of being the commander and all that. It's the same as with the kingdom management in PFK. Room for improvement gameplay-wise, which they'll probably never really get round to - and that's a downtick for sure - but it feels like a legitimate part of the game, and isn't all that offensive, if you're into your character (i.e. if you feel the responsibility of being more than just another random murderhobo).

I guess there are two schools of thought on it - "better in than out, even if a bit janky, because immersive" vs. "if it isn't well-functioning and well-integrated gameplay-wise, it should be left out." I would have a threshold for the latter, but to me neither kingdom nor crusade management hit that threshold, they just squeak through as "okayish" enough to have in. The other argument would be resources: if the devs are having to commit resources to this that could otherwise be used for improving the core game, then that's a dubious cost, but if there's a separate team dedicated to this aspect, then on balance it's ok considering the immersive argument.

But this might be idiosyncratic on my part, as I never played HOMM so I have nothing to compare to, so while I could imagine this minigame being better in numerous ways, I don't have experience of a full game of this type that's better than this minigame (which I would guess HOMM is). I could see someone being annoyed by a sub-standard copy of another game type within the game.
 

Shadenuat

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mods that auto-win every fight even with just 1 Footman
But Mishulin, I don't want to win; I just don't want to play with you.
All I want is travel from dungeon a to dungeon b, getting killed by ratnook hill DM over and over again, and after every victory tell Ember she is a cookie. I don't want Mishulin DM, I want Ratnook DM.
 

smaug

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I suppose whether the crusades thing annoys you or not depends on how invested you are in the immersion of being the commander and all that. It's the same as with the kingdom management in PFK. Room for improvement gameplay-wise, which they'll probably never really get round to - and that's a downtick for sure - but it feels like a legitimate part of the game, and isn't all that offensive, if you're into your character (i.e. if you feel the responsibility of being more than just another random murderhobo).

I guess there are two schools of thought on it - "better in than out, even if a bit janky, because immersive" vs. "if it isn't well-functioning and well-integrated gameplay-wise, it should be left out." I would have a threshold for the latter, but to me neither kingdom nor crusade management hit that threshold, they just squeak through as "okayish" enough to have in. The other argument would be resources: if the devs are having to commit resources to this that could otherwise be used for improving the core game, then that's a dubious cost, but if there's a separate team dedicated to this aspect, then on balance it's ok considering the immersive argument.

But this might be idiosyncratic on my part, as I never played HOMM so I have nothing to compare to, so while I could imagine this minigame being better in numerous ways, I don't have experience of a full game of this type that's better than this minigame (which I would guess HOMM is). I could see someone being annoyed by a sub-standard copy of another game type within the game.
If you played HoMM, the crusade system is 100x worse. It’s not hard, but so boring and uninteresting, also it’s essentially kingdom management except with a combat gimmick.

Owlcat could have spent more time encounters, interactivity, or rather actual RPGMechanics…

But the shills will defend it on the basis on it breaks up normal gameplay or whatever
 

NJClaw

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
When I select "Core" I expect everything be as it would be in the Adventure Path on the table top, or at least as close as possible. Instead I get Rusjank "haha u die little baby man" garbage, just like they had in the later parts of Kingmaker.
First you say you don't want to argue semantics, now you're upset because you're not ok with the WORDS Owlcat used to describe their difficulty settings. Come on.

Core clearly isn't the difficulty for you if you don't care about optimization. This is stated in-game multiple times.

There's also a very simple reason why Owlcat inflates monsters' stats and encounters: on average, a party built by a single person in a computer game will be more optimized than collection of characters built by different people in a PnP group. You would steamroll through the "core" content you are asking for with your eyes closed.

The encounter design is shit on any difficulty.
On the encounter design I can't say much right now. What saddens me the most is the abysmal AI, but we couldn't really expect much in this department after Kingmaker.
 

Fedora Master

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When I select "Core" I expect everything be as it would be in the Adventure Path on the table top, or at least as close as possible. Instead I get Rusjank "haha u die little baby man" garbage, just like they had in the later parts of Kingmaker.

There's also a very simple reason why Owlcat inflates monsters' stats and encounters: on average, a party built by a single person in a computer game will be more optimized than collection of characters built by different people in a PnP group. You would steamroll through the "core" content you are asking for with your eyes closed.

Except the bad encounter design causes problems even on Standard.
 

smaug

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When I select "Core" I expect everything be as it would be in the Adventure Path on the table top, or at least as close as possible. Instead I get Rusjank "haha u die little baby man" garbage, just like they had in the later parts of Kingmaker.
First you say you don't want to argue semantics, now you're upset because you're not ok with the WORDS Owlcat used to describe their difficulty settings. Come on.

Core clearly isn't the difficulty for you if you don't care about optimization. This is stated in-game multiple times.

There's also a very simple reason why Owlcat inflates monsters' stats and encounters: on average, a party built by a single person in a computer game will be more optimized than collection of characters built by different people in a PnP group. You would steamroll through the "core" content you are asking for with your eyes closed.
Owlcat could have done a lower level campaign and used a 20 point buy with less munchkin items. I don’t blame owlcat entirely for this, but they are way to trigger happy with munchkin items and high level gameplay.
 

thesheeep

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Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Who even gives a shit about the Aneva/Irabeth relationship? It's not like you're constantly being reminded of it, its brought up once fairly early into the game, and then its a non-factor for the remainder of it. If anything, its smart to put the liberal agenda shit into the prologue since most Journos won't play more than that anyway, so they won't notice that it's not something that continues all game.
If all you do is raging day in day out about people who are not exactly like yourself or like you think they should be for whatever reason, the mere inclusion of something like that can ruin your day.
I guess.

It really is all so minor compared to the rest of the game.
You get the load of the "wokeness" (and honestly, I'd barely call it that) early on, and then forget all about it for 95% of the rest of the game.

The MUCH bigger problem of the writing has nothing to do with any agendas.
It's just WAY too wordy. And the alignment choices are very awkward.

and after every victory tell Ember she is a cookie.
She really is a cookie, though.
Sweet, seems to be permanently baked and even spent some time in the "oven" - burned skin and all...
 

Fedora Master

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Who even gives a shit about the Aneva/Irabeth relationship? It's not like you're constantly being reminded of it, its brought up once fairly early into the game, and then its a non-factor for the remainder of it. If anything, its smart to put the liberal agenda shit into the prologue since most Journos won't play more than that anyway, so they won't notice that it's not something that continues all game.
If all you do is raging day in day out about people who are not exactly like yourself or like you think they should be for whatever reason, the mere inclusion of something like that can ruin your day.
I guess.

It really is all so minor compared to the rest of the game.
You get the load of the "wokeness" (and honestly, I'd barely call it that) early on, and then forget all about it for 95%* of the rest of the game.

and after every victory tell Ember she is a cookie.
She really is a cookie, though.
Sweet, seems to be permanently baked and even spent some time in the "oven" - burned skin and all...

JUST IGNORE IT AND IT'LL GO AWAY
 

Parabalus

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17,511
It's okay, you like a shit game full of tranners and homos, no need to be so snide towards people with better tastes.
You're lamenting the fact that enemies have inflated stats. A couple of days ago you were crying because the gargoyles in Regill's quest hurt you and you had to reload DOZENS (!?!?!?) of times in certain encounters in the Gray Garrison. Easier modes solve exactly those problems.

When I select "Core" I expect everything be as it would be in the Adventure Path on the table top, or at least as close as possible. Instead I get Rusjank "haha u die little baby man" garbage, just like they had in the later parts of Kingmaker. The encounter design is shit on any difficulty.

Did it occur to you that it's the tabletop AP that is nerfed for noobs, and owlcat got the Core stats right?
 

gurugeorge

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I suppose whether the crusades thing annoys you or not depends on how invested you are in the immersion of being the commander and all that. It's the same as with the kingdom management in PFK. Room for improvement gameplay-wise, which they'll probably never really get round to - and that's a downtick for sure - but it feels like a legitimate part of the game, and isn't all that offensive, if you're into your character (i.e. if you feel the responsibility of being more than just another random murderhobo).

I guess there are two schools of thought on it - "better in than out, even if a bit janky, because immersive" vs. "if it isn't well-functioning and well-integrated gameplay-wise, it should be left out." I would have a threshold for the latter, but to me neither kingdom nor crusade management hit that threshold, they just squeak through as "okayish" enough to have in. The other argument would be resources: if the devs are having to commit resources to this that could otherwise be used for improving the core game, then that's a dubious cost, but if there's a separate team dedicated to this aspect, then on balance it's ok considering the immersive argument.

But this might be idiosyncratic on my part, as I never played HOMM so I have nothing to compare to, so while I could imagine this minigame being better in numerous ways, I don't have experience of a full game of this type that's better than this minigame (which I would guess HOMM is). I could see someone being annoyed by a sub-standard copy of another game type within the game.
If you played HoMM, the crusade system is 100x worse. It’s not hard, but so boring and uninteresting, also it’s essentially kingdom management except with a combat gimmick.

Owlcat could have spent more time encounters, interactivity, or rather actual RPGMechanics…

But the shills will defend it on the basis on it breaks up normal gameplay or whatever

AFAIK they did improve kingdom management a bit from its initial version over time, maybe they'll do the same here eventually - it seems a bit "placeholderey" at the moment, like there's some kind of progression they had envisaged but it's not fully in yet.

You have to be careful though, I think if the mini-game were too difficult then you'd get the complaints that it's distracting from the "main" part of the game. (Similar sort of balance problem as between the tactical and strategic layers of XCOM type games, or the Total War games - I'm someone who found the strategic layer of the TW games more interesting than the actual combat battles, which after the first game, Shogun, I found to be too annoying and always auto-resolved :) )

On paper, it sounds great to have two layers in a game like that, and it's certainly a great ideal to aim for in terms of rolepaying some important character or whatever, but it must be incredibly difficult to get the balance right.
 

smaug

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Who even gives a shit about the Aneva/Irabeth relationship? It's not like you're constantly being reminded of it, its brought up once fairly early into the game, and then its a non-factor for the remainder of it. If anything, its smart to put the liberal agenda shit into the prologue since most Journos won't play more than that anyway, so they won't notice that it's not something that continues all game.
If all you do is raging day in day out about people who are not exactly like yourself or like you think they should be for whatever reason, the mere inclusion of something like that can ruin your day.
I guess.

It really is all so minor compared to the rest of the game.
You get the load of the "wokeness" (and honestly, I'd barely call it that) early on, and then forget all about it for 95% of the rest of the game.

That MUCH bigger problem of the writing has nothing to do with any agendas.
It's just WAY too wordy. And the alignment choices are very awkward.

and after every victory tell Ember she is a cookie.
She really is a cookie, though.
Sweet, seems to be permanently baked and even spent some time in the "oven" - burned skin and all...
Who even gives a shit about the Aneva/Irabeth relationship? It's not like you're constantly being reminded of it, its brought up once fairly early into the game, and then its a non-factor for the remainder of it. If anything, its smart to put the liberal agenda shit into the prologue since most Journos won't play more than that anyway, so they won't notice that it's not something that continues all game.
If all you do is raging day in day out about people who are not exactly like yourself or like you think they should be for whatever reason, the mere inclusion of something like that can ruin your day.
I guess.

It really is all so minor compared to the rest of the game.
You get the load of the "wokeness" (and honestly, I'd barely call it that) early on, and then forget all about it for 95%* of the rest of the game.

and after every victory tell Ember she is a cookie.
She really is a cookie, though.
Sweet, seems to be permanently baked and even spent some time in the "oven" - burned skin and all...

JUST IGNORE IT AND IT'LL GO AWAY
Go make a thread in Gaming Drama, I wish homosexuals would disappear from gaming but that’s a different topic, go make new thread, this is gameplay thread dumbass
 

smaug

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I suppose whether the crusades thing annoys you or not depends on how invested you are in the immersion of being the commander and all that. It's the same as with the kingdom management in PFK. Room for improvement gameplay-wise, which they'll probably never really get round to - and that's a downtick for sure - but it feels like a legitimate part of the game, and isn't all that offensive, if you're into your character (i.e. if you feel the responsibility of being more than just another random murderhobo).

I guess there are two schools of thought on it - "better in than out, even if a bit janky, because immersive" vs. "if it isn't well-functioning and well-integrated gameplay-wise, it should be left out." I would have a threshold for the latter, but to me neither kingdom nor crusade management hit that threshold, they just squeak through as "okayish" enough to have in. The other argument would be resources: if the devs are having to commit resources to this that could otherwise be used for improving the core game, then that's a dubious cost, but if there's a separate team dedicated to this aspect, then on balance it's ok considering the immersive argument.

But this might be idiosyncratic on my part, as I never played HOMM so I have nothing to compare to, so while I could imagine this minigame being better in numerous ways, I don't have experience of a full game of this type that's better than this minigame (which I would guess HOMM is). I could see someone being annoyed by a sub-standard copy of another game type within the game.
If you played HoMM, the crusade system is 100x worse. It’s not hard, but so boring and uninteresting, also it’s essentially kingdom management except with a combat gimmick.

Owlcat could have spent more time encounters, interactivity, or rather actual RPGMechanics…

But the shills will defend it on the basis on it breaks up normal gameplay or whatever

AFAIK they did improve kingdom management a bit from its initial version over time, maybe they'll do the same here eventually - it seems a bit "placeholderey" at the moment, like there's some kind of progression they had envisaged but it's not fully in yet.

You have to be careful though, I think if the mini-game were too difficult then you'd get the complaints that it's distracting from the "main" part of the game. (Similar sort of balance problem as between the tactical and strategic layers of XCOM type games, or the Total War games - I'm someone who found the strategic layer of the TW games more interesting than the actual combat battles, which after the first game, Shogun, I found to be too annoying and always auto-resolved :) )

On paper, it sounds great to have two layers in a game like that, and it's certainly a great ideal to aim for in terms of rolepaying some important character or whatever, but it must be incredibly difficult to get the balance right.
The issue isn’t the difficulty of KM or crusader system, it’s banal, uninteresting and impedes on RPG design. I know BG2 had a stronghold, maybe that did it better but I never got to it or used it when I attempted to play it.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
I liked HoMM. This has turned out to be a pretty freaking good approximation. Much better than expected after the crap in the beta.

As with KM a good bit of the best itemization is locked behind it so the mentally ill here projecting all their issues on a game they haven’t even begun to figure out yet are going to miss that end too.

Don’t pander to or coddle them. Only makes them worse. Journoshills suck. Just knee jerk doing the opposite is no better.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

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I'm very into cock and ball torture
Going to respec into sacred huntsmaster, because Druid sucks
Thac0 Ontopoly

Druid gang, ATTACK

All I can say is, that I am very happy now with my longspear wielding dinosaur druid. An enlarged longspear with power attack deals about 20 damage per strike on level 2, my druid killed both the water elemental and the glaive wielder cultist boss pretty much alone with two hits each after entangling them.
 

smaug

Secular Koranism with Israeli Characteristics
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Going to respec into sacred huntsmaster, because Druid sucks
Thac0 Ontopoly

Druid gang, ATTACK

All I can say is, that I am very happy now with my longspear wielding dinosaur druid. An enlarged longspear with power attack deals about 20 damage per strike on level 2, my druid killed both the water elemental and the glaive wielder cultist boss pretty much alone with two hits each after entangling them.
I was a ranged druid.
 

gurugeorge

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Strap Yourselves In
Who even gives a shit about the Aneva/Irabeth relationship? It's not like you're constantly being reminded of it, its brought up once fairly early into the game, and then its a non-factor for the remainder of it. If anything, its smart to put the liberal agenda shit into the prologue since most Journos won't play more than that anyway, so they won't notice that it's not something that continues all game.
If all you do is raging day in day out about people who are not exactly like yourself or like you think they should be for whatever reason, the mere inclusion of something like that can ruin your day.

To defend that side, that's not what the ire is about (at least not from most of the people who are annoyed about it here, I think). The ire is about the poz in this game being just another tiresome symptom of a general systematic malaise in culture and society.

If (as a reasonable, liberal person) you're still thinking of this in terms of the humanistic defense of statistically abnormal people having a right to be who they are and not be beaten up, etc., then that's the way the Owlcat people are thinking of it too. And that's a rationally defensible position that reasonable people can argue about.

But that's not the way the cultural trend in the West has gone. It's gone way beyond that point. The cultural trend is towards the normalization (holding up as an ideal) of the statistically abnormal and the marginalization (public denigration and humiliation) of the statistically normal. And the saturation of entertainment product with poz is now part of that, it's no longer part of a trend towards occasional humanistic reminders (as it was, say, back in the 80s or 90s).

When people talk about "slippery slope" arguments, by now it should be obvious that the "slippery slope" curmudgeons in the 50s and 60s were quite correct: what started as a humanistic defense has become the normalization of degeneracy.

And that's deliberate, it's not an accident - but expostulating on that would be going too far afield for now. At any rate, it's an example of the rhetorical tactic of "Motte & Bailey" - you have two versions of a position with the same name, one crazy that normal people wouldn't agree with, one reasonable that reasonable people can argue about. When challenged on the crazy position, the ideologue retreats to the defensible position - "What, you don't like trannies dressed like Satan teaching your kids, do you want to kill all gay people or something?"
 

smaug

Secular Koranism with Israeli Characteristics
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I liked HoMM. This has turned out to be a pretty freaking good approximation. Much better than expected after the crap in the beta.

As with KM a good bit of the best itemization is locked behind it so the mentally ill here projecting all their issues on a game they haven’t even begun to figure out yet are going to miss that end too.

Don’t pander to or coddle them. Only makes them worse. Journoshills suck. Just knee jerk doing the opposite is no better.
We’re all aware you’re autistic retard who enjoys tedious and banal systems.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Who even gives a shit about the Aneva/Irabeth relationship? It's not like you're constantly being reminded of it, its brought up once fairly early into the game, and then its a non-factor for the remainder of it. If anything, its smart to put the liberal agenda shit into the prologue since most Journos won't play more than that anyway, so they won't notice that it's not something that continues all game.

Are people seriously upset about a homo couple in a game where you can eat your baby dragon, sacrifice companions to become an evil demi-god, fuck your demon-mom, have sex with someone who is essentially a mix of a cat and a spider and therefore would constitute beastiality, and where you can condone a rapist to be gang-raped by his victims after genderbending both him and his victims? And the homo-couple is the problem?

No we’re rightfully tired of the whole degenerate nonsense. Looking forward to Slavs getting caught up with the rest of us.
 

PrK

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I'm very into cock and ball torture
Something I haven't figured out yet, if anyone knows, is when can I use scrolls/wands that require a UMD check, from inventory, outside of combat?
Sometimes for example my Assassin can cast Mirror Image from a scroll, even if it takes a couple of tries to succeed, and that is depicted later in the log. Other times, seemingly under same circumstances, no matter how many times I try, it doesn't let me and I have to do it in real time. So, what gives?
What do you mean by "in real time"? If the example you're giving is your Assassin casting Mirror Image outside of combat you are in real time already, right?

No, as it stands, when you are in the inventory (game is paused) and out of combat, you can use an unlimited amount of consumables, and when you close the inventory (return to real time) they are all applied simultaneously, and depicted in the log normally.
For scrolls/wands that can be used normally by a character (can be used by this character in the tooltip) it works as above.
For scrolls/wands that require a UMD check while casting though (can be used with skill check in the tooltip, yellow description sheet), it doesn't work always. Sometimes you can use them and sometimes not (and it doesn't seem to be the most logical explanation, personal vs targeted, because sometimes I can cast a personal spell like Mirror Image that way).
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Who even gives a shit about the Aneva/Irabeth relationship? It's not like you're constantly being reminded of it, its brought up once fairly early into the game, and then its a non-factor for the remainder of it. If anything, its smart to put the liberal agenda shit into the prologue since most Journos won't play more than that anyway, so they won't notice that it's not something that continues all game.
If all you do is raging day in day out about people who are not exactly like yourself or like you think they should be for whatever reason, the mere inclusion of something like that can ruin your day.

To defend that side, that's not what the ire is about (at least not from most of the people who are annoyed about it here, I think). The ire is about the poz in this game being just another tiresome symptom of a general systematic malaise in culture and society.

If (as a reasonable, liberal person) you're still thinking of this in terms of the humanistic defense of statistically abnormal people having a right to be who they are and not be beaten up, etc., then that's the way the Owlcat people are thinking of it too. And that's a rationally defensible position that reasonable people can argue about.

But that's not the way the cultural trend in the West has gone. It's gone way beyond that point. The cultural trend is towards the normalization (holding up as an ideal) of the statistically abnormal and the marginalization (public denigration and humiliation) of the statistically normal. And the saturation of entertainment product with poz is now part of that, it's no longer part of a trend towards occasional humanistic reminders (as it was, say, back in the 80s or 90s).

When people talk about "slippery slope" arguments, by now it should be obvious that the "slippery slope" curmudgeons in the 50s and 60s were quite correct: what started as a humanistic defense has become the normalization of degeneracy.

And that's deliberate, it's not an accident - but expostulating on that would be going too far afield for now. At any rate, it's an example of the rhetorical tactic of "Motte & Bailey" - you have two versions of a position with the same name, one crazy that normal people wouldn't agree with, one reasonable that reasonable people can argue about. When challenged on the crazy position, the ideologue retreats to the defensible position - "What, you don't like trannies dressed like Satan teaching your kids, do you want to kill all gay people or something?"

:bravo:
 

Shadenuat

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To defend that side, that's not what the ire is about
It doesn't matter how much you shitpost about yourself being a proud fighter against the awful system, how many memes you make and post, cuck ratings give, and so on, here. Codex is considered by your opponents as Zoo; even worse - a Reservation. They care fuck about your glorious fight and think of you no more than apes throwing shit at the world while behind the bars. You basically use Codex to vent your stress out about your falling Empires. While Codex is about being mad at failing RPGs.
You want change, you'll have to do Planet of the Apes, not shaking the bars and crying; like making utub channel or something, or raiding enemy camps.
And stop crying and begging about how Russians don't save your world; it's as miserable as eastern europeans begging USA to "civilise" & protecc their country(s).
 
Last edited:

Daidre

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Imho, the biggest issue with a HoMM battles right now is the low lethality of the combat. Units just have way too much HP/AC comparing to the damage they do.
And the ridiculous situation when two 100+ creature stacks keep hitting each killing off 1-2 units for 50+ rounds is unthinkable in any proper HoMM.

Due to this any non-mage general is a pain to play.

And I won't be surprised if there is also shitton bugs in all calculations on top of questionable design decisions, like not implementing any retaliation.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
GameBanshee review: https://www.gamebanshee.com/reviews/125485-pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous-review/all-pages.html

Introduction

When Owlcat Games released Pathfinder: Kingmaker back in 2018, that expansive CRPG with an abundance of classes, quests, and systems came pretty close to being a worthy successor to the Baldur's Gate throne, but it wasn't quite ready to dethrone the king just yet.

And this now leads us to Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, Owlcat Games' second go at creating a massive CRPG based on a deep tabletop ruleset. Older, wiser, and more experienced - the developers had every opportunity to create a truly spectacular video game here. But were they successful? Read on to find out.

Just When I Thought I Was Out

Not getting any younger myself, I have to admit I had my reservations prior to diving into Wrath. At this point, I generally prefer my video games to last somewhere between 20 to 40 hours. Anything more, and I tend to lose interest. As such, the prospect of getting lost in a massive campaign was a bit daunting.

That didn't last past my first day with the game. The clock was showing around 3 in the AM when I vaguely remembered that sleep was a thing people did. And perhaps even more shockingly, that enthusiasm persisted, and for several weeks my life consisted of two things: Pathfinder and Not-Pathfinder. With the latter being a remote afterthought.

So, above anything else, it's important to note that the game is very fun to play, and it does manage to evoke that rare feeling of wonder that comes with exploring a truly deep and expansive RPG.

Now, as you might have guessed, Wrath is using some iteration of the Pathfinder tabletop ruleset, which makes my job a bit tricky, because if I were to sit here and explain all of Pathfinder's quirks and intricacies, we'd be here all week.

In short, the game is based on the first edition of Pathfinder that in turn is a spiritual continuation of Dungeons & Dragons' third edition. D&D 3.75, if you will. Meaning that if at some point you've played a D&D RPG along the lines of Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights, you'll know what to expect.

And if you didn't, or if some of the finer details elude you still, Wrath has this neat dynamic tutorial system that pops up every once in a while to give you some useful bit of advice, like if your character has been blinded, and instead of removing that condition you keep fighting like that, or when you have a clearly better item than what you're currently wearing just sitting in your inventory.

And what with this being Owlcat's second Pathfinder RPG, it has more of everything compared to Kingmaker. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Wrath's character building is currently unrivaled.
You have 25 basic classes all going up to level 20, each with 6-7 subclasses. Then, there are 13 prestige classes and abundant multiclassing options. You also have 12 races (with their own selection of sub-races) to choose from, ranging from the fairly standard Humans and Dwarves to some funkier options like the Oreads, a race of literal stoners, and the daywalker-wannabe Dhampirs.

On top of that, you have backgrounds granting you additional proficiencies and bonuses, as well as what feels like hundreds of feats.

And just in general, the game gives you plenty of options. You can get a dinosaur pet. You can even ride said dinosaur into battle. You also can dual-wield certain shields, which is a very amusing feature to me. Basically, if there were ridable turtles in this game, it would've had everything.

And because all that variety isn't enough, the game also has these so-called Mythic Paths. They essentially act as an extra leveling system that goes up to level 10 and happens in parallel to your main class advancement. Only instead of collecting experience points, you need to progress through the game's story in order to raise your Mythic rank.

Upon gaining a Mythic level, your characters will get access to either a Mythic feat - these usually improve one of their existing ones - or a Mythic ability that can get deliciously overpowered, like being able to extend the duration of most of your spells to full 24 hours, or simply refusing to die for two full turns.

Your main character will also adopt a proper Mythic Path. These will gradually turn you into some powerful being, like an angel, demon, lich, and other things of this caliber. All of them come with powerful abilities that are built to work with both spellcaster and warrior classes, and a decent chunk of unique content.

With me being an Aeon - a cosmic judge-type fellow - I could see disturbances in the Force basically, and had Aeon-specific quests to right them. I was also great at dismantling enchantments, seeing through lies, and even had a chance to engage in some recreational time travel.

And what with there being ten of these paths, this opens up plenty of opportunities for replayability. And before you even unlock your Mythic Path proper, you can also choose a Mythic affinity of sorts that gives you a few extra abilities and doesn't need to align with your actual path.

So, to give you an example, for my playthrough I wasn't engaging in anything remotely close to power gaming and just picked things that seemed appropriate at the time to see where that got me.

I was playing a Barbarian tactician who at first wanted to go the Angel route, it being the first option you get. As such, I picked the Celestial Totem Rage ability. Then, upon discovering Mythic affinities, I went with an Azata boon, that gave me some damage resistances, a strong reliable attack, and a way to give my allies some extra damage.

But when the time came, I turned towards the path of an Aeon, since it felt the most reasonable of the lot. And that made me a paragon of Law, which over time prohibited me from gaining any new Barbarian levels, and so I multiclassed into a Mutagen Fighter.

Being a Barbarian at heart, I ended up as an overall rubbish Aeon, and later on, was tempted to become a contract-signing Devil. But before I was able to switch sides, an altercation with the Prince of Darkness ruined my plans and left me a half-baked Aeon with something to prove.

You see, this sort of organic blending of a game's systems and its narrative, not knowing where your character will eventually end up, it's what makes RPGs so exciting to play. And very few of them offer such a breadth of options and meld their elements together so well.

What's also a clear step up from Kingmaker, is the general clarity and usability of it all. Wrath has a fantastic UI when it comes to character building (and not as fantastic when it comes to everything else).

When creating a character, it's easy to see which options you have at any given moment. And as for the game's abundant feats, there's now a search bar that allows you to look up a specific one or even a group of them based on some common tag. Plus, you can immediately see which other options any given feat unlocks.

Even the bane of many a newcomer to a D&D-adjacent game, the less than obvious stacking of bonuses, has been addressed and whenever there's a conflict of buffs or equipment, you can clearly see which of your bonuses are being wasted.

Or how about another noob bane - specializing in some weird weapon and then not finding any during your adventures. Wrath has this "companion" that's essentially a sentient weapon. And as opposed to most such sidekicks, this guy can transform into any weapon at will. And he gets stronger as you progress through the game, making him always at least a decent choice and allowing you to specialize to your heart's content.

Three Hearts, Three Lions, Three Stooges

And now, with the basic systems more or less sorted out, let's consider the actual campaign.

The game takes place in and around the Worldwound, Golarion's region directly connected to the demonic Abyss. For the past hundred years, the people living there have been locked in a seemingly endless war with an alliance of demon lords trying to use the Worldwound as their foothold to conquer all of Golarion.

During that century of warfare, four attempts to retake the demon-infested lands had already failed. And when your character arrives at the scene and all Hell, pun intended, breaks loose, an opportunity arises to mount Crusade 5, the last of the Worldwound crusades. This is its story.

Over the course of the game's campaign that will take you somewhere in the vicinity of 100-120 hours to complete, you'll get to cross swords with a host of demons and their godlike demon lords, learn more about the origins of the Worldwound and its connections to Golarion at large, deal with the logistics of a military campaign, and meet a stacked cast of pretty unique individuals.

This being a game about a holy crusade, you'd expect a lot of the characters to follow a certain archetype, and the campaign in general to have a somewhat solemn and heroic tone.

That's not exactly the case here. It won't take long for you to start wondering where all the Lionheart and Sturm Brightblade types are hiding. What with the game's theme and Golarion being an everything goes setting, you'd think Owlcat's writers would be fighting over the privilege of writing a Holger Carlsen-type character. You know, the original Paladin. Instead, we get some weird "subversion" of Neverwinter Nights' Lady Aribeth with a couple of vowels swapped around, and a discount Fall-from-Grace.

The game's other prominent Paladin character, the one you can recruit, is an ex-thief who can't remember her vows and mostly just likes getting drunk all the time. And her personal story is played as some joke where through a series of misunderstandings and personal drama you manage to foil a demonic plot.

But at least you can eventually show her the way of a true Paladin. Unfortunately, most of the game's characters are like that, but without the redemption part.

I understand that this is the fifth crusade in a hundred years, and at this point, they're hiring anyone willing to fight, but is it so much to ask just for one modern RPG to at least try and play things straight?

At the same time, the game seems to be aware of how ridiculous some of it gets, and the rare grounded characters are quick to point out the sheer incompetence of everyone around them.

And when you run into a bunch of cultists and overhear them "corrupting" some crusaders with a speech seemingly lifted straight from the playbook of 12-year-olds offering smokes to their peers, and these guys are currently winning, it's hard not to agree with that sentiment.

The weird thing is, I actually liked most of the game's companions. They experience some nice character growth during their stories, and it helps that most of them are pretty good at fighting demons straight out of the box, no multiclassing required.

It's just that, this cast of wacky miscreants doesn't really fit a crusading outfit and would better work in some quaint countryside adventure. Exploring a rich man's mansion on a quest revolving around family secrets and illegitimate children is fun, but it becomes less so when you remember that right at that very moment, a horde of demons is rampaging through the streets, killing everyone on sight.

Basically, if you want to enjoy the game's story content, you have to build a mental wall separating the main storyline from all the side stuff.

The former is reminiscent of Baldur's Gate II in that it takes you to a lot of distinct places and keeps things fresh between its chapters. You start as a nobody but become a crusader, then a leader. You get dragged into a mess of cosmic proportions stemming from the actions of ancient mages. At one point you even venture into the heart of the demonic realm.

But alongside all of this, instead of solemn, thought-provoking ideas, you get wacky hijinks, weird sci-fi dungeons, and drunken orgies. But at least, in all that zaniness, the game actually acknowledges that Tieflings as a race exist purely for the "thiefling" pun, and I have to give it all the credit for that.

Also, and I can't believe I even have to mention this, the game is weirdly horny. Early on, it feels like you can't go five minutes without someone propositioning you. Many of the game's quests revolve around relationships in some way. And when you go to the Abyss, the bulk of the demons you interact with there are scantily clad succubuses. It's basically a teenager's idea of what a mature game should be, and I can't say I enjoyed those parts very much.

All in all, when it comes to the narrative side, your character's unique Mythic journey is the main draw here. The whole Worldwound thing then is merely there to provide some framing for it, and the side content, occasional moments of brilliance aside, barely even bears mentioning.

Moving on to the actual moment-to-moment stuff, I should note that the game's writing doesn't feel translated. Once in a blue moon, you get some typo or a weird-sounding sentence, but for the most part, it all feels natural. At the same time, the game is guilty of overindulging in exposition and frequently shoveling three paragraphs of text onto you where two sentences would do just fine.

The game also has this very annoying tendency of disregarding your choices during dialogues. Many a time you would choose the option to attack someone, only for the game to say, "Nope," and have that character turn invisible, invulnerable, and run away. At some point, the game even lampshades this fact, only to then keep doing it.

Another less-than-ideal thing about the game's dialogues is the way they treat alignment. Instead of offering you organic choices that make sense for your character, or the situation at hand, a lot of the time, you'll just get an optional node with a bunch of replies that serve no other purpose but to move your alignment in a certain direction.

On the other hand, your character's origins aren't purely cosmetic. Playing as a dwarf and a follower of a certain god, I had multiple in-game events reflecting that.

In general, the game has a decent degree of reactivity - with companions getting a lot of love there - and plenty of opportunities to make choices that later on will result in some consequences. In fact, many of the options you have are fairly well-hidden.

For example, at one point there's a traitor in your midst. And while I had my suspicions for who that was, I had nothing solid to pin it on that particular character. After beating that section, I looked things up, and it turned out that you can actually unmask the traitor, and that would affect the chapter's big finale.

So, for all its tonal inconsistencies, it's actually refreshing to play a game where you're not guaranteed to see all the content, where you need to work for it, and sometimes, you just have to accept that you weren't skillful or attentive enough to notice some connection. I loved that part.

The game's itemization also deserves some praise. Very few of its items just give you straight enhancement bonuses. Most of them do something else on top of that, and some even provide additional bonuses when worn by a certain class, or even a character with a specific feat. As such, opening chests has rarely been so exciting.

Beyond that, this is one of the few games where consumables, especially early on, aren't just gold you haven't flipped yet. In the early stages, you'll be using scrolls, wands, and potions like never before if you don't want to rest after every encounter. And you can't really go too overboard with that, because the game has a Corruption system that saddles you with debilitating penalties if you rest too much outside your main base.

And this leads us to the game's overall difficulty. Playing on the Core setting, the way God and Gary Gygax intended, you can certainly beat the game without min-maxing, excessive multiclassing, or using custom mercenaries. It will be quite tough, however.

If in Kingmaker you had to demonstrate some basic understanding of the underlying systems to have a smooth playthrough on Challenging, with the exception of some late-game areas, Wrath will put your skills to the test and require you to use consumables, dirty tricks, and unorthodox tactics just to keep your head above water.

What helps here is the built-in turn-based mode that you can toggle at will. It works surprisingly well and allows you to lock down some of the nastier enemies before they can wreck your party.

On the one hand, this is great. The demons you're fighting come with a long list of resistances and immunities, and that forces you to come up with new builds and strategies well-suited for fighting foes like this.

In fact, this is probably the first game that forces you actually care about properly building your magic users and considering their spell DCs and penetration, instead of just putting them in the back with a crossbow to act as batteries for your melee fighters.

On the other hand, I'm not sure Owlcat knows what Core rules really mean. Sure, the game may not be artificially padding enemy stats, but that doesn't change the fact that it's throwing level 15 enemies against your level 5-7 party, or that the monsters' natural armor is anything but.

And sure, an argument can be made that a video game with abundant magical gear shouldn't be a 1:1 recreation of the tabletop experience, or that for all the overtuned challenges the game throws at you, you do have the tools to deal with them.

But still, it's a fine line the game's walking between a satisfying level of challenge and pure frustration. And while for the most part, it manages to stay fun, certain areas (I'm looking at you Blackwater) evoke some repressed House at the End of Time memories, but now with fewer memory leaks.

And then comes the late-game, and it's like you never left that accursed place, with the game throwing ridiculous encounters at you one after another, made even more frustrating by occasional bugs and, to put it mildly, wonky allied AI.

The game also has plenty of puzzles, both inside its dungeons, and as a big questline spanning most of the campaign. However, the puzzle designer and me, we're clearly operating on different wavelengths. Usually, when encountering a puzzle, I simply had no idea what it wanted me to do.

And generally, I'm for it, because not being able to complete everything in a game, and it fighting to keep its secrets, is a great thing. But at the same time, even after looking up the solutions for some of those puzzles, I still have no clue what the logic behind them was.

Crusader? I Hardly Know Her!

When not exploring dungeons or uncovering the secrets of the Worldwound, you'll be spending a decent chunk of time leading a crusade.

Essentially, right from the start, the game's map will be dotted with demon armies and fortifications blocking your adventuring progress. The armies, you can sneak your way around, but in order to go past the forts, you'll have to capture them. This is where your armies and their Generals (Heroes) come in.

Initially, when it was announced that Wrath would have a game mode inspired by Heroes of Might and Magic, I was pretty intrigued, since some of Owlcat's team members have previously worked on the fifth installment of the Heroes series.

The best-case scenario I could foresee was that this game mode would be a major hit and lead to another Might and Magic situation, where we'd have an RPG series, and side by side with it, a more strategic "Heroes" series.

Well, let's just say, having played it, I don't think anything like this is in the cards. In fact, Wrath's Crusade mode is so undercooked, it feels unfinished more than simply broken.

Crusade mode creatures all have weird stat sheets that list a bunch of irrelevant feats that don't really tell you anything useful about what those creatures actually do. The animations are extremely basic and some, like getting an extra turn due to high morale, don't exist at all. Certain General abilities don't work at all, others are laughably weak, and some are ridiculously strong.

Creature design is, let's just say, lacking. You have your glass cannons with no health but great damage, and your tanks armed with pillows that serve no other purpose than to needlessly drag battles out.

And on top of that, many of the advanced units you can hire are mercenaries, and you can't actually produce them, you just have to roll the dice on randomly getting a few of them at the start of the week, which makes creating a cohesive army all but impossible.

The battle arenas are mostly empty squares with maybe some log sitting somewhere. There are no retaliation attacks, no ranged penalties, and you can't even split your unit stacks effectively for some blocking shenanigans, because each stack counts as a separate squad, and initially, you can only have three squads on the battlefield.

With the system being so basic, you'd think that it at least could act as a nice change of pace for your adventuring. You beat a tough dungeon, you rest and recuperate, and in the meantime, you move some pieces on the board to unlock new places to explore later.

And for a while, it's exactly like that. But then, Chapter 3 starts, and we get an opportunity to pull a Scooby-Doo and unmask the Crusade mode for what it really is - old man Kingdom Management.

Once your crusade gets a permanent base, you're all of a sudden tasked with developing a town and a bunch of smaller outposts. You get a council of advisors with various tasks, events, and resources to manage. You have to deal with an endless conga line of supplicants who all want something from you. And it's all pretty much the same as it was in Kingmaker, countless loading screens included, although here they go by much quicker. Yay!

Honestly, I have no idea why Owlcat keeps trying to slip this feature past us. No one, at least to my knowledge, likes it. At best, people tolerate it.

Beyond just running the game's pacing, the whole thing is simply terribly designed. You can't actually do any strategizing on the strategic layer because you don't have a frame of reference for what you need, which buildings will get you there, and how to plan your settlements.

Early on, you don't even know all the options you'll eventually have. So, you're placing a bunch of stuff, then, when all your lots are full, you unlock a new set of buildings and find out that there are adjacency bonuses. Now you have to demolish everything and start anew.

But the thing is, even if you're just randomly plopping things down, your numbers will still be going up and you'll be fairly successful. The entire thing is a pointless waste of time. But on the bright side, only two of the game's six chapters heavily feature this system. So I guess that's something.

Technical Information

Finally, let's address the elephant. Pathfinder: Kingmaker launched in a completely busted state where pretty much every part of it was broken in some way.

Wrath, thankfully, managed to avoid such a colossal disaster. If you look at it in a vacuum, it's very buggy. But compared to Kingmaker, it's not that bad. Where Kingmaker had memory leaks, crashes, quests that didn't work, companions that randomly died forever, and critical path blockers you had to work around with creative spell applications, Wrath limits itself to stuff that's very minor compared to that.

Just an occasional glitch usually solved by reloading, plus some abilities that don't work, and others that work too well. While not ideal, it all balances out in the end, sort of. You'll have, for example, a healer with two Mythic abilities that do absolutely nothing, but then your Barbarian will get healed to full health every time someone looks at him with kindness, while your Wizard will be able to cast two spells per turn. You just roll with it.

If you power through the game, you may encounter some quests in the later stages that refuse to complete and some broken triggers in the ending slides. But I have a feeling that if you don't push it and play at a reasonable pace, by the time you get to those parts, those bigger issues will be sorted out.

As mentioned earlier, the game's UI is great for character creation. But when it comes to inventory management and everything else, really, it could definitely use some work. Because the game allows you to cook food, brew potions and scribe scrolls, your inventory will gradually get filled with piles upon piles of clutter. You add to that the actual loot, the various quest-related items, numerous consumables, and a bunch of random junk you've no idea what to do with, and you get a complete mess of an inventory screen. Sure, you can sort all that stuff, but with everything represented by tiny icons, it's really easy to lose track of what you're looking for.

And on the main screen, inspecting enemies is super clunky, and the hotbars you have are sorely lacking. Sure, they're exactly the same as Kingmaker's, but you'd think that between games some advancements would've been made.

Plus, what with the Mythic abilities and a heap of activatable items, you just have a lot of things you want to have handy, which means you don't want to have spells taking up valuable real estate. But, as far as I'm aware, there's no key you can press to bring up the game's spellcasting menu, not to mention a convenient quick cast menu like the one in Neverwinter Nights 2.

On the plus side, one of the biggest persistent issues Kingmaker had - long loading times - seems to have been solved. Wrath doesn't take too long to either save or load. It does become more sluggish towards the end, but it's nowhere near Kingmaker in that regard.

At the same time, the game is now significantly more resource-intensive for some reason. And while, with the exception of an occasional random frame drop, Wrath runs pretty well, it taxes your system like there's no tomorrow.

From my layman's position, I blame the game's new rotating camera feature. After all, now that you can freely rotate the camera, it means there's a lot more to render. This, as far as I'm concerned, is a lose-lose situation, because all the new rotatable camera did for me, was introduce some confusion and elevation glitches. Oh, it also made it easier to get turned around, especially in the Abyss, where you have to keep rotating the camera in order to progress.

This aside, the game looks significantly better than its predecessor, but the real impressive thing about the presentation is the music. Some of the tracks, especially those related to the Mythic Paths, and some of the boss themes, are absolutely fantastic.

The game's voice acting is less impressive, but thankfully, Wrath still sticks to the tried and true partial voice acting scheme where only the important dialogues are fully voiced.

And finally, the game's options menu is really good, with plenty of available options, clear descriptions for what everything does, and a deeply customizable difficulty tab.

Conclusion

As you can see, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous has some issues, and it would be dishonest not to point them out. However, that doesn't change the fact that the game is still incredibly fun to play. And even if it does outstay its welcome a bit, before that happens, it offers a good hundred hours of solid role-playing entertainment.

And since pretty much no one else is making anything quite as deep these days, you take the good with the bad. A new Baldur's Gate this is not, but it's the closest thing we've got.
 

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