Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Lyric Suite]

i.e. less choice.

This, right here, is what proves to me that this system is retarded.

"But, but, who says my twig armed, wheel chair bound character can't be a mighty warrior? He is highly intelligent and i think that counts when swinging a sword!"

Muh choices lmao.

Fucking hell.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Dude, what's your problem, just play the fucking game or not.

 

[Parabalus]

i.e. less choice.

This, right here, is what proves to me that this system is retarded.

"But, but, who says my twig armed, wheel chair bound character can't be a mighty warrior? He is highly intelligent and i think that counts when swinging a sword!"

Muh choices lmao.

Fucking hell.

Might as well complain that 9 STR fighters can be mighty.

 

[Butter]

They could've enforced minimum attributes based on class too. They could've said "We're giving you lots of meaningful choices in how you distribute these ability points, but a Wizard can't have less than 9 INT, because our setting isn't a playground. It's meant to be a real place with logic and rules."

 

[Lacrymas]

i.e. less choice.

This, right here, is what proves to me that this system is retarded.

"But, but, who says my twig armed, wheel chair bound character can't be a mighty warrior? He is highly intelligent and i think that counts when swinging a sword!"

Muh choices lmao.

Fucking hell.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the system or you are conflating entirely different concepts and it's a mess in your head.

But that's the point, dumping to glass cannon status is a conscious decision, based on each player's value system. I made the same call.

My point was more that since most barbarians are played as damage dealers, dumping resolve is an automatic choice in order to hit harder and more targets. What I would've liked to see is a choice between hitting harder and hitting more targets, something which dumping resolve nullifies.

 

[Lyric Suite]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the system.

Does Grunker have a fundamental misunderstanding of the system?

He seems to think this system is better than D&D because of shit like stat restrictions to pick up certain classes.

 

[MajorMace]

Unusually high levels of autism in this thread today.

 

[adddeed]

Dude, what's your problem, just play the fucking game or not.

I know right.
This fucking clown is here giving his shit opnion about stuff and he has never even touched the game.
Truly a special kind of imbecile.

 

[Parabalus]

They could've enforced minimum attributes based on class too. They could've said "We're giving you lots of meaningful choices in how you distribute these ability points, but a Wizard can't have less than 9 INT, because our setting isn't a playground. It's meant to be a real place with logic and rules."

Dumpstatting is a different issue altogether, you should still be offended by 9 INT wizards if 3 INT wizards bother you. It's also a problem in DnD.

 

[NJClaw]

This, right here, is what proves to me that this system is retarded.

"But, but, who says my twig armed, wheel chair bound character can't be a mighty warrior? He is highly intelligent and i think that counts when swinging a sword!"

Muh choices lmao.

Fucking hell.

LS, you're complaining at the same time that (a) the game somehow forces you to max certain attributes AND (b) the game allows you to have viable characters regardless of how you choose your attributes.

 

[Lacrymas]

Does Grunker have a fundamental misunderstanding of the system?

He seems to think this system is better than D&D because of shit like stat restrictions to pick up certain classes.

Nobody is saying any character can be whatever you want with whatever attribute allocation you want. That is what you are implying by saying "my wheelchair-bound character can be a mighty warrior because he's intelligent". No, he can't. What can happen is that you can choose the role of your class regardless of the usual archetypes. A wizard can be a front-line tank if you build him this way. Not in general just because you want to with dumped everything.

 

[Desiderius]

When you've eliminated all the alternatives what remains, however unlikely, is in fact the case.

He's trying to talk himself out of playing it because he can no longer get it up like he once did. Many such cases.

 

[Parabalus]

My point was more that since most barbarians are played as damage dealers, dumping resolve is an automatic choice in order to hit harder and more targets. What I would've liked to see is a choice between hitting harder and hitting more targets, something which dumping resolve nullifies.

It's an additional choice on the axis of defense vs offense, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Lacrymas]

The axis being only between defense and offense is where Sawyer made his first mistake with the attribute design. I would've liked to see the axis including more aspects of defense (number of targets engaged, spell resistance, deflection, higher health/endurance) and offense (hitting harder, hitting more targets, hitting more accurately or faster, debuffing, etc.). As it stands now, you don't choose between sub-aspects of offense and defense, you get everything included in the package when you choose one or the other.

 

[Lyric Suite]

This, right here, is what proves to me that this system is retarded.

"But, but, who says my twig armed, wheel chair bound character can't be a mighty warrior? He is highly intelligent and i think that counts when swinging a sword!"

Muh choices lmao.

Fucking hell.

LS, you're complaining at the same time that (a) the game somehow forces you to max certain attributes AND (b) the game allows you to have viable characters regardless of how you choose your attributes.

I'm complaining that the game is destroying any relation between the numbers and the realities those numbers were meant to be an abstraction of in the first place (which is the entire fucking point of a roleplaying game).

The answers i am being given so far is that:

1) It doesn't matter because your choices don't matter.
2) It's better because you have more choices now!

 

[Lacrymas]

No, the actual answer is that you can explain it away however you wish if you want to retain a connection between the abstract and non-abstract. The other answers are about the attribute system in general.

 

[Piotrovitz]

I'm complaining that the game is destroying any relation between the numbers and the realities those numbers were meant to be an abstraction of in the first place (which is the entire fucking point of a roleplaying game)

So don't fucking play it, it's simple as that.

Leave your basement, go outside or read a book, whatever.
You're wasting your and everyone else's time here on circular discussion about a game that you don't even intend to play.

 

[Lyric Suite]

A wizard can be a front-line tank if you build him this way.

You forgot to explain to me why it is good to have a system where your wizard could potentially be your tank.

The word "wizard" literally means wise in old english. The archetype is based on historical figures like John Dee, who aren't exactly known for their war exploits.

So i ask, why would anyone want to have a system that allows you to have wizards spank enemies in the frontlines?

 

[Lacrymas]

Because you want to make use of the defensive spells of the wizard, or because you want a different playing style with your wizard, or because you are a weirdo. It doesn't really matter, what matters is that you have the choice to do so and that's good. Well, to a certain degree. I wouldn't have done it like this because it makes the class system pointless, it's a classless one masquerading as class-based. Theoretically people who want every class to fulfill every role would like this.

 

[Lyric Suite]

See, you keep telling me that the problem is that i just don't understand how the system works and that i should play the game first before bitching about the system and then you confirm my criticism of the system in the same breath.

 

[NJClaw]

A wizard can be a front-line tank if you build him this way.

You forgot to explain to me why it is good to have a system where your wizard could potentially be your tank.

You mean like in any D&D videogame ever where the best way to tank is to cast Mirror Image with a wizard?

The spellcaster who fights in the frontline avoiding and absorbing enemies' attacks through his magic is a staple of the genre. In BG and IWD you can play that with a Fighter/Wizard multiclass, why does it bother you so much that in PoE you can do the same thing with a different name?

See, you keep telling me that the problem is that i just don't understand how the system works and that i should play the game first before bitching about the system and then you confirm my criticism of the system in the same breath.

Oh no, the system HAS problems. You're still vastly exaggerating them though.

 

[Parabalus]

A wizard can be a front-line tank if you build him this way.

You forgot to explain to me why it is good to have a system where your wizard could potentially be your tank.

The word "wizard" literally means wise in old english. The archetype is based on historical figures like John Dee, who aren't exactly known for their war exploits.

So i ask, why would anyone want to have a system that allows you to have wizards spank enemies in the frontlines?

Mages are literally the best tanks in most D&D games.

 

[Haplo]

We've talked about this before and the conclusion is attributes in the IE games are pointless because of the strict requirements and the fact most of your attributes are worthless for the class/es you chose.

If you dump resolve you are extremely squishy and prone to interrupts, something to the tune of 30-40 less deflection compared to Eder at lvl 2.

That's purely theoretical, you don't actually feel the squishiness all that much. And as for Eder vs you, where do you get 30-40 less deflection from? The difference is 1 Deflection per point of Resolve.

In-game values from my barb run, 10 difference from RES, 10 from class and 10ish from shield.

You def do feel it until you're overleveled.

You feel it, sure. But such a character is not meant to be the main tank of the party. And to a degree you can compensate with healing, particularly on a Barbarian with a large Health pool. Wear the Consecrated Ground sandals, maybe roll a Moon Godlike, have high might, maybe activate Savage Defiance... and watch your Health bar disappear. Damn, the Health/Endurance dynamic was so good! ...but I digress, other then with healing, you can also compensate for relative squishiness with CC. A Barbarian with a Prone-on-Crit weapon and a large Carnage aoe (and Priest buffs/debuffs!) was just so cool! Never liked any other Barbarian nearly as much, as the PoE1 kit!

 

[Desiderius]

John Dee, who aren't exactly known for their war exploits

The Armada begs to differ.

Oh no, the system HAS problems. You're still vastly exaggerating them though.

And misidentifying them like a regular unwashed noob.

Lyric Suite

What is the first line of your Creed?

https://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/creeds/apostles-creed

You don't believe on the basis of His melee damage.

 

[Grunker]

i.e. less choice.

This, right here, is what proves to me that this system is retarded.

"But, but, who says my twig armed, wheel chair bound character can't be a mighty warrior? He is highly intelligent and i think that counts when swinging a sword!"

Muh choices lmao.

Fucking hell.

Like I said, you can prefer less choice on the ground of verisimilitude. But arguing that poe's attribute system has less choice than AD&D's is the purest sign that you're one of the cultists