Return To Monkey Island - MI2 sequel from Ron Gilbert

[El Presidente]

I have zero respect for the people-whining-about-people-whining. Let the old fans complain, they've been with the series for 30+ years and people are generally tired of the waves of decline tirelessly reaching and destroying everything they hold dear for not even a good reason. Considering I have strong doubts franchises as huge and mainstream as Mario or Zelda are easy to sell to the younger audiences these days, can you even imagine how something like Monkey Island would fare among them? Sure it's a well known PnC classic but that's like saying you're the most famous person from Tajikistan, when it comes to younger games. Kids don't even know what Megaman is these days.

All that is to say, this should be made for the oldfags that know and love it. So when in step 1 of the board they already immediately backstab this crowd by showing off something so unpleasant to them - and immediately adopting a combative stance as well -, how in this godforsaken retarded world is it wrong for the fans to complain? And of course the """journalists""" are all defending Ron. Why wouldn't they? These people aren't in it for their love of games, they're in it to fight the fascists, after all.

 

[Rincewind]

Funny how he thinks somebody is going to fund this after Return to Monkey Island bombs.

We don't know it yet, it might as well be a mainstream success.

 

[Rincewind]

Let the old fans complain, they've been with the series for 30+ years and people are generally tired of the waves of decline tirelessly reaching and destroying everything they hold dear for not even a good reason.

I don't really like where this new game is going, but the old games are still there for us to replay any time, nothing got destroyed. The times and the gaming landscape has changed, not much to do about that, and they seem to be going for "mass appeal", however misguided that might be. Plus you gotta admit fans of anything, be it games, books, movies, whatever, can be behave like massive entitled idiots at times. Just because you liked something that someone once produced, you have zero rights to go and behave like an angry orangutan with him just because you don't like his newer output, I think we can agree on that. Be glad that the person produced something in the past that you enjoyed and move on, that's the sensible and cultured approach.

So on one hand, Ron must have had plenty of time to get accustomed to idiotic fans during his carreer, on the other hand, I kinda understand him going "fuck the fans" and turning off all comments. But then, some of his comments are just as immature as those of his "fans".

Probably he got some constructive criticism as well, but I've read some of the "feedback" he got and most of it is trash-tier shitposting. One would expect higher standards from fans of adventure games that is a thinking person's genre, after all.

Slightly related, just go and read "Misery" from Stephen King for a depiction of fan idiotism and fanatism taken to the next level. Most likely King had met his share of weirdos during his carreer as well.

 

[Alex]

As if Guybrush would still be a White dude in 2029.

Fixed.

 

[ADULF HITLOR FAN KLUB]

Funny how he thinks somebody is going to fund this after Return to Monkey Island bombs.

We don't it yet, it might as well be a mainstream success.

Here is your mainstream.

Also don't forget that adventure games are a niche genre.

 

[ADULF HITLOR FAN KLUB]

More mainstream opinions for jfrisby

 

[Boleskine]

Let the old fans complain, they've been with the series for 30+ years and people are generally tired of the waves of decline tirelessly reaching and destroying everything they hold dear for not even a good reason.

I don't really like where this new game is going, but the old games are still there for us to replay any time, nothing got destroyed. The times and the gaming landscape has changed, not much to do about that, and they seem to be going for "mass appeal", however misguided that might be. Plus you gotta admit fans of anything, be it games, books, movies, whatever, can be behave like massive entitled idiots at times. Just because you liked something that someone once produced, you have zero rights to go and behave like an angry orangutan with him just because you don't like his newer output, I think we can agree on that. Be glad that the person produced something in the past that you enjoyed and move on, that's the sensible and cultured approach.

So on one hand, Ron must have had plenty of time to get accustomed to idiotic fans during his carreer, on the other hand, I kinda understand him going "fuck the fans" and turning off all comments. But then, some of his comments are just as immature as those of his "fans".

Probably he got some constructive criticism as well, but I've read some of the "feedback" he got and most of it is trash-tier shitposting. One would expect higher standards from fans of adventure games that is a thinking person's genre, after all.

Slightly related, just go and read "Misery" from Stephen King for a depiction of fan idiotism and fanatism taken to the next level. Most likely King had met his share of weirdos during his carreer as well.

All joking of the last few days aside this is all very fair and reasonable. The game is almost done and they're not going to scrap the art style. They probably don't have the time or resources to make any significant changes, either.

I don't think it's worthwhile for people to flame Ron or the team. If someone doesn't like what they see then it's fine to share that feedback, but things don't need go further than that. Each of the comments pages that has been closed seemed to start with 1-2 shit-posters and 1-2 overzealous white knights who dragged everything down.

I also think Ron made mistakes in his own responses, first by telling people to "stomp out of the park" then playing "woe is me." He should let the fans fight amongst each other - more word of mouth for the game.

I don't fault Ron for being disappointed at the negativity. I'm just surprised he didn't expect some of it. How much feedback did the team get on the art style prior to the announcement? Were they truly blindsided by the mixed responses?

Somebody should have told Ron don't generalize all critics based on the worst comments. That will end up alienating more people than intended. Don't label critics or assume their motivations. Just keep repeating, "We are proud of the work and hope the quality of the game can win you over." If it gets too much then put your head down and stay silent until the game is released.

 

[ADULF HITLOR FAN KLUB]

I don't fault Ron for being disappointed at the negativity. I'm just surprised he didn't expect some of it. How much feedback did the team get on the art style prior to the announcement? Were they truly blindsided by the mixed responses?

Ron wrote in a blog post that the game was shown to a focus group and they loved it, which is hard to believe judging from all of the negativity.

 

[Boleskine]

I don't fault Ron for being disappointed at the negativity. I'm just surprised he didn't expect some of it. How much feedback did the team get on the art style prior to the announcement? Were they truly blindsided by the mixed responses?

Ron wrote in a blog post that the game was shown to a focus group and they loved it, which is hard to believe judging from all of the negativity.

If so I'd guess they didn't cast a wide enough net. Of course a bunch of hipster game devs and artists who live in NY and SF will say, "OMG Monkey Island, yes! I can't wait to show this to my wife's boyfriend!"

I think it's clear Ron was smitten by Rex's art and no amount of early negative feedback would have dissuaded him from that approach. If Disney said, "This art style is shit, change it," Ron would have probably rage quit and publicly disowned the game as not being his true vision if it had still been made without him.

Overall I'm happy Ron has made the game he wanted to make. As long as the jokes and puzzles are good, most people who dislike the art style will probably play and enjoy the game.

Autists dug up this this tweet from 2009.



Yes, the link does lead to this:

 

[Star Citizen]

So I take it they used Dall-E to make the graphics for this game, right?

Dunno, I'd play this LOL

 

[Dexter]

Funny how he thinks somebody is going to fund this after Return to Monkey Island bombs.

Devolver isn't doing so hot anyway, I doubt this is going to change much about that: https://www.shacknews.com/article/130935/devo-devolver-digital-stock-revenue-guidance-cut

 

[Fowyr]

It's just a trend anyway, and many non-corporate websites feature similar minimalist design, e.g. just look at the Firefox homepage.

Actually, Mozilla Foundation is a de facto corporation.
Also web designers ape big boys and then each other.

 

[negator2vc]

With every post he STILL make (the "idea" about remaking Maniac Mansion) I become all the more convinced that
he thrives in causing divisions (as he already posted in his blog) and the art style was selected for exactly this reason
and not because he even liked it!

Who post something like that (again the Maniac Mansion post) during a time when his controversial ideas about a beloved
game are causing enough damage already?
That's spitting on his own fans (actual fans) faces.

 

[Rincewind]

Also web designers ape big boys and then each other.

Well yeah, all animals and thus humans too do that all the time

 

[Falksi]

Funny how he thinks somebody is going to fund this after Return to Monkey Island bombs.

We don't it yet, it might as well be a mainstream success.

Here is your mainstream.

Also don't forget that adventure games are a niche genre.

It's both stupid and fucking pathetic that Gilbert would even consider giving a shit about those cuntbags, never mind gearing his whole game around attempting to snag them.

A nice Pixelarted sequel would probably have netted him 3-4 times what he's now gonna net. It's like watching Metallica trying to go all grunge by dropping the guitar solos. What a fucking moron.

 

[Darkozric]

The timing to announce something about MM is a bit weird (after all that bitching). Apparently he doesn't care for the dust to settle down a bit.

He's either trying to bait the retro-fascists fans (to kinda forget about what they saw) or he has been Disneyfied for that sweet Disney/Devolver booty.

I could be wrong but I don't think he has the energy and will to run a second Kickstarter. So everything from now on will probably be Disney-infused and controversial.

 

[Jarpie]

There already is Maniac Mansion Deluxe.

 

[HeroMarine]

It's just a trend anyway, and many non-corporate websites feature similar minimalist design, e.g. just look at the Firefox homepage.

Actually, Mozilla Foundation is a de facto corporation.
Also web designers ape big boys and then each other.

Not only is Mozzila a corporation, their board fired the CEO (and Founder!) because he had the nerve to donate to anti-faggot "marriage" causes.
Fuck Mozilla to hell

 

[negator2vc]

There already is Maniac Mansion Deluxe.

what an awesome fan remake!
fans (actual fans not fanboys) prove again and again that only them truly care about their beloved (in this case) games

 

[negator2vc]

The timing to announce something about MM is a bit weird (after all that bitching). Apparently he doesn't care for the dust to settle down a bit.

He's either trying to bait the retro-fascists fans (to kinda forget about what they saw) or he has been Disneyfied for that sweet Disney/Devolver booty.

I could be wrong but I don't think he has the energy and will to run a second Kickstarter. So everything from now on will probably be Disney-infused and controversial.

I never understood this (and from what I have seen the dev never said anything about that)
Did Gilbert license the IP from Disney for an amount of money or some other arrangements where made (split profits for example)?
Because if Gilbert payed money to get the license, money that he have to recuperate on top of his other expenses
that could easily be the end of his company if the game flops due to this crap!
After all this isn't a company with infinite amount of money.

 

[Darkozric]

I never understood this (and from what I have seen the dev never said anything about that)
Did Gilbert license the IP from Disney for an amount of money or some other arrangements where made (split profits for example)?
Because if Gilbert payed money to get the license, money that he have to recuperate on top of his other expenses
that could easily be the end of his company if the game flops due to this crap!
After all this isn't a company with infinite amount of money.

Yeah the situation with the IP it's not clear. I guess we have to wait and see.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Good job, retro-fascists. You ruined everyone's fun!

https://kotaku.com/return-monkey-island-ron-gilbert-art-style-angry-fans-1849128586

Monkey Island Creator Ron Gilbert Has Joy Sapped From Sequel Thanks To Awful People​

https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189707/ron-gilbert-return-to-monkey-island-online-abuse

Ron Gilbert won’t post about the new Monkey Island anymore following online abuse​

https://www.ign.com/articles/return-to-monkey-island-director-online-abuse

Return to Monkey Island Director Will No Longer Post About the Game Due to Online Abuse​

https://www.polygon.com/23189602/re...on-gilbert-art-style-guybrush-threepwood-blog

Ron Gilbert won’t share any more about Return to Monkey Island after art style complaints​

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/ro...to-talk-about-return-to-monkey-island-anymore

Ron Gilbert doesn’t want to talk about Return To Monkey Island anymore​

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/h...rn-to-monkey-island-on-his-blog/1100-6505006/

Harassment Means Ron Gilbert Will Stop Talking About Return To Monkey Island On His Blog​

https://www.eurogamer.net/return-to...no-longer-talk-about-the-game-following-abuse

Return to Monkey Island creator will no longer talk about the game following abuse​

https://www.gamesradar.com/au/retur...ing-to-talk-about-the-game-due-to-toxic-fans/

Return to Monkey Island dev is refusing to talk about the game due to toxic "fans"​

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/es...te-over-fan-harassment/ar-AAZ2gpa?li=BB15ms5q

Return to Monkey Island creator deletes website over fan harassment​

He didn't delete his website, he shut down posting of new comments.

I'd be curious to see the "abuse" and "harassment" but Ron says he deleted those posts. It sounds like those were actually contentious replies between commenters and not directed at Ron or the team.

Oh well, doesn't matter. Gamergate clearly organized a harassment campaign against Return to Monkey Island because the trailer has a strong black woman and anyone who doesn't like the art style is racist, toxic, misogynist, stupid, Nazi, anti-SJW, and most importantly retro-fascist.

feedback = harassment
dislike = abuse
opinions = toxic

Works every time.

weird how every fanbase is suddenly "toxic"

 

[EtcEtcEtc]

I don't really like where this new game is going, but the old games are still there for us to replay any time, nothing got destroyed. The times and the gaming landscape has changed, not much to do about that, and they seem to be going for "mass appeal", however misguided that might be. Plus you gotta admit fans of anything, be it games, books, movies, whatever, can be behave like massive entitled idiots at times. Just because you liked something that someone once produced, you have zero rights to go and behave like an angry orangutan with him just because you don't like his newer output, I think we can agree on that. Be glad that the person produced something in the past that you enjoyed and move on, that's the sensible and cultured approach.

So on one hand, Ron must have had plenty of time to get accustomed to idiotic fans during his carreer, on the other hand, I kinda understand him going "fuck the fans" and turning off all comments. But then, some of his comments are just as immature as those of his "fans".

Yes, a portion of fans can be dicks - and often will resort to psychopathic breakdowns over even the smallest change. But, I find it hard to commiserate with these corporations and creators who intentionally built up this "fandom" around their work and exploited it. When some nerd posts a picture of his Monkey Island collection, and it's wall to wall monkey island stuff, he has a guybrush tattoo, he named his son LeChuck - whatever insane unhinged thing crazy fans tend to do - creators can't help but fall over themselves promoting it and saying how awesome it is. When it's not - it's an unhealthy obsession.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

I have zero respect for the people-whining-about-people-whining.

What about people-whining-about-people-whining-about-people-whining?

Slightly related, just go and read "Misery" from Stephen King for a depiction of fan idiotism and fanatism taken to the next level. Most likely King had met his share of weirdos during his carreer as well.

King actually met his fans at conventions and the like, whereas I don't think Gilbert has ever been at a convention, or even if he has, not the level of crazy that was ye olde sci-fi conventions. There was a book about lovely stories involving creators and their fans, and one of the highlights was a fan throwing a cup of warm sick at some author. King himself stopped attending these conventions when a fan followed him into the bathroom for an autograph. I think these are slightly more troubling than trading barbs with people who don't like your game over the internet.

 

[lightbane]

Eh, King is overrated IMO. "It" for example is supposed to be one of his masterpieces... Until you realize the ending is literally his self-insert going super-saiyan against the big bad, after having killed the character that spent the entire book getting character development in a stupid way, so that he doesn't stand in the way. The OG movie was better in that regard, for what works.

Either way, I agree that the answers to the shitty corporate art-style are quite tame. However, the answer to these was the same as most works today ("if you don't like it, you're x-ist!").