Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Joonas]

The Shambilng Mounds towards the end left some strange treasure after defeat. Every one of them left a Plate Mail + 3, an Ioun Stone, a Displacer Cloak, a magical crossbow and I think a Broad Sword + 1 (afair) behind as loot. This felt strange, because this doesnt´t feel intended from the game designers, and even the official clue book doesn´t mention these items....

Was curious, checked the monster with Monster Modder (comes with Gold Box Companion), and behold:

Giant slugs have 4 plate mails and 2 composite long bows, giant snakes have 8 leather armors, giant spiders have leather armors and a shield...

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Most die oddly and its uncertain is they could be instantly transformed into such. Do they have souls/spirits. Would the Dark Queen even permit it?

The rituals used to corrupt and pervert the eggs of the good dragons result in multiple draconians being created from a single egg, so it would seem they don't have souls in the AD&D metaphysical/cosmological sense.

Which perhaps explains why draconians all generate odd effects upon death.

 

[Dorateen]

On the other hand, if there could be undead draconians, surely they would have appeared in Death Knights of Krynn. That game had undead everything, even zombie chickens. I wonder what Chemosh would have to say about the matter.

 

[Joonas]

Small update to Gold Box Companion.

v2.65 (10-Jun-2021)

• Better handling of party composition changes. Adding or removing characters or NPCs should no longer cause an error during gameplay. GBC now also updates its HUD when a member is added or removed, or when the order of party members has changed. This hopefully fixed some related glitches when using GBC with The Dark Queen of Krynn: the HUD wasn't updated properly when certain NPCs left the party, combat map monsters seemed to be invisible or on your side, etc.
• New tool, ECL-monitor, which can live monitor the current ECL script and flags when a game is running. More info at the FRUA forums: http://ua.reonis.com/index.php?topic=4110.0

http://gbc.zorbus.net

 

[Dick]

Was curious, checked the monster with Monster Modder (comes with Gold Box Companion), and behold:

...

Giant slugs have 4 plate mails and 2 composite long bows, giant snakes have 8 leather armors, giant spiders have leather armors and a shield...

Interesting, and yes you are right, the loot from Shambling Mounds included a magical longbow (instead of a crossbow), and of course the shield + 1... how could I forget this source of magical shields which helped to equip all of my party member with one of these things

... but does that mean that this loot is intended I wonder... I don´t use GBC myself, and like I said, not even the official cluebook does mention these items. Also they are way too overpowered compared with the other magical gear you find in the game.

Also, some things I forgot to mention regarding the game in general (can´t seem to edit my previous post):

-Enemy encounters were more varied than I remembered. The battles remained relatively interesting throughout the game. Also some enemies you encounter mostly (or exclusively) in certain places in the wilderness, which highlights the danger some terrains pose
-Regarding the huge amount of time that passes when you wander about the worldmap, I did not care and wandered throughout the map, and none of my chars even aged one year (so the characters aging in accordance with the time spent in game world is either not implemented, or I didn´t spend enough time wandering around..). And I didn´t use the Haste spell - not only was it not really needed, but I also don´t like the age counter of my characters go up
-The main villain I thought was well designed. Him playing with the party (instead of him destroying all of them in the beginning) made kind of sense if you take into account how strong he actually is. Also he departed with style
-The end in general felt unorthodox, but in a refreshing way

So definitely recommended, but the successor has a somewhat dull look compared to this game, or maybe it needs some acclimatization to the newer interface I don´t know, will try it in the next weeks I hope

 

[Cael]

You can't have undead draconians for obvious reasons...

Well I may not have thouroghly delved into the lore of the Krynn series, but at first and subsequent glances, I didn´t see any hindrance for this. They are made of blood and bones, after all, so why not..

They don't leave fleshy bodies for you to raise.

Bozaks explode.
Auraks turn into pure energy then explodes.
Baaz turns into stone which then crumbles to dust.
Sivaks first wear the face of their killers before burning into scorch marks on the ground.
Kapaks dissolves into a pool of acid.

 

[Cael]

Was curious, checked the monster with Monster Modder (comes with Gold Box Companion), and behold:

...

Giant slugs have 4 plate mails and 2 composite long bows, giant snakes have 8 leather armors, giant spiders have leather armors and a shield...

Interesting, and yes you are right, the loot from Shambling Mounds included a magical longbow (instead of a crossbow), and of course the shield + 1... how could I forget this source of magical shields which helped to equip all of my party member with one of these things

... but does that mean that this loot is intended I wonder... I don´t use GBC myself, and like I said, not even the official cluebook does mention these items. Also they are way too overpowered compared with the other magical gear you find in the game.

Consider the fact that the shambling mounds you fight has a far lower AC than normal shambling mounds, chances are they were using the equipment when you are trying to kill them. They were meant to be the most dangerous creatures you will fight in Gateway. The instant-kill attack is nasty as hell, and their low AC, high hp and various immunities makes killing them fast virtually impossible.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Yeah, I rechecked all the draconian entries from 1e, 2e, etc and a few customs like Rosak and they ALL be become unstable upon death. I forgot multiple draconians come from 1 corrupted egg and I wonder what the rate of creation is (set number per type, random)?? I imagine if war of the lance lets you play the invading dragon armies it might mention that in troop resources. (Game needs an update maybe).

 

[Null Null]

Most die oddly and its uncertain is they could be instantly transformed into such. Do they have souls/spirits. Would the Dark Queen even permit it?

Consider some of the Ravenloft undead like zombie lords, ghoul lords, etc and their abilities. What of ghost, specter, and energy draining? Siviks don't appear to have an odd death. AWESOME IDEA THOUGHT! Yeah, i'll look into this.

I made combat icons for zombaaz, ghulak (ghoul kapak), witak (wight bozak), mumak (mummy sivak), and vampak (vampire aurak) draconians for an unreleased FRUA game. If you like I can try to find them.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Cool. Always glad to see new art for FRUA.

 

[ProphetSword]

Yeah, I rechecked all the draconian entries from 1e, 2e, etc and a few customs like Rosak and they ALL be become unstable upon death.

When magic is involved, though, all sorts of rules get broken, especially when gods get involved. I mean, if you can resurrect someone from a single hair on their head, I cannot fathom a reason why magic wouldn't allow the creation of undead draconians. Could be an evil cleric or mage would have to do it before the bodies dissolve or explode, or maybe there's even a way to do it from whatever remains.

It's not like there are actual real-world rules here. Fantasy breaks all kinds of boundaries.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I forgot multiple draconians come from 1 corrupted egg and I wonder what the rate of creation is (set number per type, random)??

I checked the boxed text from DL9 Dragons of Deceit:

Two hooded figures flank a small, slime-covered altar. They stare at an object on the altar in rapt concentration, uttering the low, droning chant. Looming over the two human-sized creatures, also staring at the object upon the altar, is a sinuous red dragon.

Craning for a better view, you see that on the altar sits a silver dragon egg.

The chanting has reached some kind of climax, for the hooded figures pause. Suddenly, a drop of saliva from the red dragon’s hideous maw plops onto the egg.

Immediately, the silvery surface turns black and slimy. Like some poisonous tumor, the egg begins to grow, changing shape and writhing as if in torment.

The egg becomes huge and begins to split apart. Instead of the silver dragon that should emerge, however, many squirming, lizard-like figures spill forth.

The egg has just given birth to several dozen miniature Sivak draconians.

IIRC, the number of draconians by type should vary inversely with their power, meaning that a gold dragon egg would be converted into a smaller number of Auraks than the "several dozen" (specified as 4d12) Sivaks from a silver dragon egg, but that copper, bronze, and brass dragon eggs would convert into an increasing number of Kapak, Bozak, and Baaz draconians.

 

[Erebus]

The rituals used to corrupt and pervert the eggs of the good dragons result in multiple draconians being created from a single egg, so it would seem they don't have souls in the AD&D metaphysical/cosmological sense.

From what I remember, draconians have fiendish souls (the souls of abishai, to be precise). The ritual that corrupts the eggs also brings those souls from the Abyss to the bodies of the newly-created draconians.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

From what I remember, draconians have fiendish souls (the souls of abishai, to be precise). The ritual that corrupts the eggs also brings those souls from the Abyss to the bodies of the newly-created draconians.

Yes, I should have checked the 1987 Dragonlance Adventures hardcover book:

The corruption of the eggs is the work of an evil triad, Wyrllish the cleric, Dracart the mage, and the ancient red dragon Harkiel the Bender. Through arcane spell they cause the eggs to grow and their occupants to multiply. Then Wyrllish opens a gate to the Abyss and the abishai, the Dark Queen's minions, rush forth to inhabit the new bodies. Draconians are creatures of magical origin and when they are slain, the odd enchantments that formed them create spectacular death scenes (see the draconian descriptions).

Abishai had been introduced into AD&D via the 1983 Monster Manual 2 as reptilian "scaly devils" mostly serving Tiamat.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

The rituals used to corrupt and pervert the eggs of the good dragons result in multiple draconians being created from a single egg, so it would seem they don't have souls in the AD&D metaphysical/cosmological sense.

From what I remember, draconians have fiendish souls (the souls of abishai, to be precise). The ritual that corrupts the eggs also brings those souls from the Abyss to the bodies of the newly-created draconians.

Ah! YES! I was thinking that but didn't have my books to look it up.

 

[Incendax]

-The game is technically much more advanced than Pool of Radiance, the other low level goldbox game.. This may be obvious, but I felt that one has to have played some of the other goldbox games beforehand in order to really appreciate this one.

Gateway is a really underrated game. It's a great starting point if you don't want to deal with Pool of Radiance's lack of features (though Pool is such a great game).

You can actually play the same party from Pool of Radiance > Gateway > Curse > Treasures > Secret > Pools of Darkness for an epic 6 game romp.
Some item corruption can occur, but it's not a big deal.

 

[Incendax]

On a related note, Dark Queen of Krynn can fuck off and die in a trash fire. Every god damned trash fight has 4+ assholes throwing 100+ damage DBFB and OOPS you're character is disintegrated. I seriously don't remember having this much trouble in Pools of Darkness. /Rant /Vent

 

[Desiderius]

They were both slogs.

High level D&D has yet to be done well.

 

[octavius]

Gateway was a bland game with poor encounter design and among the worst overland exporation ever in CRPGs. But it did have a very good final battles sequence.

Dark Queen provides a constant high challenge with varied encounter design.

 

[Incendax]

Dark Queen provides a constant high challenge with varied encounter design.

I definitely agree the encounter design is varied, but the challenge is far from constant.

The game throws otyughs, umber hulks, ettin, sharkmen, fanatics, normal draconians, and even zombies at you on the regular. All pretty much fodder with no challenge.

The mages/clerics, and enchanted bozak/aurak are the only consistent challenge. I will give the game credit for properly screening their mages with fodder.

My main bitching from above was fighting 6+ casters on random trash fights (as opposed to fixed encounters).

 

[Sinatar]

Yea the fixed encounters in DQoK are fine, but the random battles which all have level 40 red mages in them can fuck off into the sun.

The random encounter rate is also really high in that game.

 

[Erebus]

The random encounter rate is also really high in that game.

From what I remember, random encounters are a lot more common in some areas than in others. They're fairly rare on the overland map and there are some places where they're non-existent (the hulderfolk forest, the gnomish citadel...).

There are also a few places where the number of random encounters is capped : after defeating a certain number of them, random monsters will still appear but they'll choose to flee instead of fighting you.

 

[Desiderius]

The random encounters that scarred me for life were in Moander's Body in PoD.

 

[octavius]

Yeah, parts of PoD was worse than anything in DQK, Moander's body being the worst. It had better final battles, though, so overall more uneven than DQK.

 

[Cael]

Yea the fixed encounters in DQoK are fine, but the random battles which all have level 40 red mages in them can fuck off into the sun.

The random encounter rate is also really high in that game.

I have never run into a random fight with more than 2x mages of any kind. The fixed encounters are the ones with large number of casters from every direction (e.g. that fight in Tremor's lair).