Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale IV Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Apexeon]

...Milk the nostalgia button...

better than milking the awesome button. :D

Try milking my pet snake ****** 4 weeks in hospital and vomiting up my guts.
All to make a few quid. I should of just stole the wine.

 

[Darkzone]

I wonder how inXile is going to reinvent the combat and make it good, if the already failed to reproduce a good one.

 

[V_K]

Try milking my pet snake

It took me a while to get that you meant that literally :D.

 

[Infinitron]

There is now a Bard's Tale section on the inXile forums: https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewforum.php?f=41

 

[FeelTheRads]

Guess I missed this until now:

Is this game will be closer to 2009 Bard's Tale or to "classic" ones?

Brian: more like the classics.

Brian: As much as I enjoyed our little Bard's Tale comedy romp, Bard's Tale IV is a proper sequel of the trilogy.

Well, OK then. Now I'm waiting for a confirmation that it's not Grimrock with bards.

 

[Decado]

Jesus Christ bros how the fuck did codex posters take his comments about Hearthstone and come up with a card-based combat system? He was talking about the complexity of the game which, to be quite fair, is pretty goddamn good. Blizzard is really good at taking someone else's formula and improving upon it, and they did that with Hearthstone. Even if you don't like card battle games, you cannot deny that it is well done. The combat is complex, once you get to a certain point, and in that regard it is like every other game they've made since WoW: it has casual appeal, but the really tough shit doesn't show itself until you invest your time into the system.

Having said that, card based combat in a dungeon crawler would be the balls.

Anyway, I am cautiously optimistic about this game. I think WL2 was better than I expected, but lower than my highest expectations. All of the dudes on the codex a few years ago who were preaching the gloom and doom and "WL2 is going to fucking suck!" were not vindicated, not in any meaningful way. The game has its issues, sure, but it solid and at points, fun as hell.

In my opinion, Bard's Tale was always about the practically-unfair dungeons. They were fucking merciless, for real. For all of my love of Grimrock 1 and 2, the game never instilled in me the feeling that I was being brutally punished. And sometimes, I miss that feeling. I want to step on a spinner, not realize that I stepped on it, and keep mapping on my graph paper for the next 20 minutes before realizing I have fucked it all the fuck up.

So yeah, bring back Bard's Tale. Fix the glaring character class problems that were never properly managed in the first three, throw in some great art, hard dungeons, NPCs, a review board, and Roscoe's. I will back it.

 

[Infinitron]

Card-based combat in Shroud of the Avatar: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/i-hate-card-combat.18286/

I Hate Card combat.

I'm so sorry I've tried it and I hate it. Currently I'm using locked deck system and I find it dull. I'm not sure why this system is being used in a mmoorpg bit isn't it why we have mtg and yugio? Am I the only one who feels this way if so call me crazy.

Also I really really miss usage based skulls but you really had something there in Ultima online.

They say the devs listen it's why I'm posting here.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...hy-card-deck-combat-will-be-skill-based.7348/

Why "card deck" combat will be skill based

Many feel that it was a mistake to draw a strong parallell between SotA combat and card game systems since this gives an association to something artificial, slow and random. It is easy to instinctively assume that combat will be based all on luck, but I don't think so. Quite the contrary, such a "card deck" system might create a battle system that will be complex and challenging to master and with more variables than normal.

To be the best, you need to excel at several stages of combat:

1. Knowledge:
   • Know the effect of each skill "card" you have
   • Know the potential of combining each skill "card" with other skills. I have the impression that there might be many ways to combine skills into more than they are on their own, so perhaps at times, you will even have several alternatives. Do I combine my Fireball with another Fireball for a Firestorm, or do I combine it with Swipe, to put my greatsword on fire?
2. Strategy:
   • Select a combination of skills that are right for your play style and that includes cards with the potential to boost each other
   • Decide how often you want each skill to appear (by training skills more than once)
   • Tweak combat parameters with skill points (like how long timers are before unused skills are replaced by new ones)
   • Balance risk vs. reward by deciding on how many locked skills you want (skills that are always available). Locked skills cannot be combined with other skills to create greater effects, so you can choose to have a stable, reliable combat performance (like a traditional MMORPG) or gamble on one that requires flexibility, quick thinking and a bit of luck to pull off. The best combatants are probably going to be those who successfully manage with less locked skills or find some optimal middle ground
   • Manage non-skill effects that modify your skills (non-skill "cards")
3. Quick thinking and reactions:
   • Activate the right skills before they are replaced by new ones
   • Decide between playing it safe by using skills as they are, or waiting for new skills to appear that make combinations possible

You need to be good at all of this, so skill will separate good from great. Of course, harnessing the randomness of the system will be a part of that skill, but not the only one, and randomness can be decreased in favor of predictability.

All in all, this sounds like a challenge to me. I understand that some find that this "game inside the game" could make combat feel less realistic, but I'm not so worried about that. It doesn't have to be if it's fun. Successful innovation in battle is not common among MMORPGs and if this system is enjoyable, it's going to draw a lot of new players in.

The final result all depends on how they implement the battle system. Can they do it in a way where skill activation is not so absorbing that you lose control of the battlefield?

I'm more excited about trying out combat with this system than if it had been a traditional one. It might be harder, and I like that.

My comment to Brother None after reading the above:

19:47 - Infinitron: don't show it to brian, he might like it
19:47 - Infinitron:

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

...Milk the nostalgia button...

better than milking the awesome button. :D

Try milking my pet snake ****** 4 weeks in hospital and vomiting up my guts.
All to make a few quid. I should of just stole the wine.

Why are you milking it? Do you have a buyer or are you inoculating yourself against venom?

 

[Decado]

Having said that, card based combat in a dungeon crawler would be the balls.

Quoting myself, don't give a fuck.

If you think about it, phased based combat ala Bard's Tale is quite similar to card based combat, at least in the sense of how you play your moves: some inkling of how your enemy will react, a limited amount of moves (turns/cards) to resolve combat encounters, etc. The big difference is that, at least with traditional card based battle systems, you are limited by what you "draw." But it doesn't have to be this way. Endless Space uses a card based battle system for its ship battles . . . which are not perfect, but the potential for a great system is there.

 

[FeelTheRads]

If you're not limited by what you draw what's the point of it being with cards? So you can collect "moves"?
Also, what did Hearthstone improve upon?

 

[Infinitron]

https://twitter.com/BrianFargo/status/559797724954910720

Brian Fargo
We are still designing the combat system for Bard's Tale but be assured it will be no real time click fest. Details much later...
1 minute ago retweeted by jesawyer

 

[LESS T_T]

In the meantime...

@burgerbecky @BrianFargo that's the way to do it. Thanks for answering my questions. Would love to see you on Bard's Tale 4!

@Umbersona @BrianFargo @oldeskuul FYI, @BallsintheAir and @JennellAllyn worked on #BardsTale4 at EA, and #BardsTale3 is my game.

Still have my design docs for the original EA Bard's Tale IV from the early 90s. Headed for a museum some day #BardsTale4 @OldeSkuul

@burgerbecky @Umbersona @BrianFargo @OldeSkuul @JennellAllyn I worked on Bards Tale IV @EA

edit: Chris Avellone is now following Heineman.

 

[Zombra]

Please don't use the word "meantime" for a while. I'm already disappointed enough with the announcement as it is, you don't have to rub it in

 

[Infinitron]

The irony of the woman named "Susan Manley" being the only biological female on your team

 

[octavius]

How many transsexuals does it take to make a good game?

 

[Metro]

Folks still on that card-based combat theory, eh? ITT: People don't understand analogies.

 

[Bubbles]

Folks still on that card-based combat theory, eh? ITT: People don't understand analogies.

If anything, Fargo ruling out real time only lent credence to that theory, since card combat wouldn't work in full real time.

 

[Metro]

All elephants are grey. Nellie is grey. Therefore Nellie is an elephant. Brilliant. It's getting harder and harder to tell when you're trolling and when you're just being dumb.

 

[Snorkack]

I have a hard time following the drama since I refuse to use twitter. Is Burger Becky now part of the team?

 

[Infinitron]

I have a hard time following the drama since I refuse to use twitter. Is Burger Becky now part of the team?

You don't have to use it, you just have to read it.

And no, heavens no.

 

[Snorkack]

Also, Infinitron where does the comment "Burger takes more credit than she deserves" come from? That sounds more like Brenda Romero.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Folks still on that card-based combat theory, eh? ITT: People don't understand analogies.

Not everyone can read PR fluently. It's been suggested that what Fargo needs is a talking pet like the Ur-Quan had to translate his PRspeak into gamerspeak.

 

[Infinitron]

Bard's Tale Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/TheBardsTale

Also, Infinitron where does the comment "Burger takes more credit than she deserves" come from? That sounds more like Brenda Romero.

Drama over the proper crediting for the first two Bard's Tale games. Somebody else can probably give you a better accounting of it. (It's actually a triple-sided drama - Fargo, Cranford and Heineman, though the former two have since settled their differences)

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

card combat wouldn't work in full real time.

 

[CryptRat]

Recruiting monsters was one of my favorite features in Bard's Tale 3. I hope they won't forget that.

card combat wouldn't work in full real time.

A good game by From Software, a little short though. I have bought the second one but haven't played it yet.