The Dragon Age: Inquisition Thread

[Bleed the Man]

Actually, a lot of Bethesda fans don't want any kind of content "gate". They want to be able to do every guild with one single character, hell, even having level 20 deathclaws at Quary Junction in New Vegas was not well recieved at all (it was seen as "railroading")

Don't know if that has changed, I won't visit the Bethesda formus again in my entire life. At least BSN is kind of amusing, Bethesda's is just infuriating.

I am a New Vegas fanboy but I do think there is at least some merit to this complaint, to be fair. There is an appeal to being able to go in any direction right out of the gate. Even Morrowind let you do this, for the most part, and kept the tougher enemies and areas to a few focused patches of land and dungeons. I think there's a balance to strike where you can mostly wander around freely but certain areas are too high level. Skyrim tried this with elevation, most stuff up in the mountains was much tougher than ground-level.

But there's no physical limitation, and if you're smart you will be able to pass avoiding the Deathclaws. It certanly is an obstacle, but not a barrier. You can still go north fine, you just have to work a bit in order to do so. If it was needed an exploit or such, then I would agree with you.

 

[Zombra]

you have hopes for ME4?

Actually if there was better leadership over at Bioware they'd have a shot at it.

Let's imagine for a moment what might have been if Bioware never followed a trail of candy into EA's dirty van.

It's hard to picture, but try.

 

[Slow James]

I still think being able to bring the quarians and geth together is pretty fuckin good. it doesn't have that much (...alright, any) overall narrative impact, but it's an excellent moment and it didn't have to be there. same with the fate of the Krogan, I was beating myself up over having deleted the genophage research in ME2, and feeling like I've made a bad decision and am now paying the price is a -good- thing in an RPG.

admittedly, neither actually fucking mattered. but I wouldn't call it completely illusiory, because it -seemed- like it mattered. not like in DAI, where none of the side bullshit even seemed to matter and, hey, it turned out it didn't matter.

And see... those examples of Save Import tick me off more than anything. Why? Because they smack the hands of the players who thought that Renegade choices were the better options. There is an honest-to-God GREAT case to be made against using the genophage cure, especially since foot soldiers are worthless against a fleet of AI battleships. There is also PLENTY of reason to not let the Rachni queen live, as can be seen by the fact that the Galaxy needed the Krogan just to stand a chance at surviving last time they were at war. Shephard never has to answer for either brain-washing or deleting Geth in Legion's loyalty mission, nor is there much of any repercussions for outing Tali's father or keeping his secret.

These choices punish anyone who chose the Renegade "not evil but doing whatever it takes to get the job done" path, which Bioware turned around and made the "evil and doing the exact opposite of getting the job done" path retroactively. It's twisted and it's honestly almost on the verge of some weird social conditioning reinforcement, saying you have a choice and that being a pragmatist who doesn't see the world with rose-tinted glasses is a viable option... oh, you didn't pursue the hippie-rainbows-and-sunshine options, shame on you!



That's my big problem with ME's imports (outside of the whole Import farce in general). It tells the player they were wrong for having a certain outlook. Playing a full-Renegade Shephard who doesn't waste his time chasing wild leads or dealing with people's daddy issues, but focuses on the mission at hand gets you some of the worst results in the game. That's... that's insane. Just on the face of it, that's insane. A play style dedicated to putting the mission first is rewarded with the entire planet Earth being incinerated (without Multiplayer TROLLOLOLO).

The Save Import system is great if you chose all Blue options and were a completionist. You know why? Because that's the character Bioware built the game around you playing. The more you deviate off that path and you will learn that your choices mean significantly less and your punishments increasingly more severe.

 

[DalekFlay]

But there's no physical limitation, and if you're smart you will be able to pass avoiding the Deathclaws. It certanly is an obstacle, but not a barrier. You can still go north fine, you just have to work a bit in order to do so. If it was needed an exploit or such, then I would agree with you.

I'm just saying when I'd rather the "super hard but can be done" sections of the game not be the entire North route at the start of the game. I think was a little too early/immediate for that kind of thing, maybe. Not for me, please understand, but I can get why some would find that confining. Even the Gothic games let you mostly go in any direction at the start, IIRC.

 

[Bleed the Man]

But there's no physical limitation, and if you're smart you will be able to pass avoiding the Deathclaws. It certanly is an obstacle, but not a barrier. You can still go north fine, you just have to work a bit in order to do so. If it was needed an exploit or such, then I would agree with you.

I'm just saying when I'd rather the "super hard but can be done" sections of the game not be the entire North route at the start of the game. I think was a little too early/immediate for that kind of thing, maybe. Not for me, please understand, but I can get why some would find that confining. Even the Gothic games let you mostly go in any direction at the start, IIRC.

Well, I can understand being a little bothered by the positioning of the Deathclaws, but seeing it as railroading, which is what a lot of people on Bethesda forums said at the time, is way too much for me.

 

[Jaesun]

Let's imagine for a moment what might have been if Bioware never followed a trail of candy into EA's dirty van.

It's hard to picture, but try.

To be honest, its what the Doctors wanted all along. To make mass accessible "rpgs".

 

[Slow James]

I'm just saying when I'd rather the "super hard but can be done" sections of the game not be the entire North route at the start of the game. I think was a little too early/immediate for that kind of thing, maybe. Not for me, please understand, but I can get why some would find that confining. Even the Gothic games let you mostly go in any direction at the start, IIRC.

I agree that the map of New Vegas could have been better designed to guide the players who wished to be guided, while freeing others to do as they wish.

If you ask me, if they had switched the location of Goodsprings to be more centrally located or nearer to Vegas, there would be less complaints about things like the Deathclaws and whatnot. The fact that they used high powered enemies that would slaughter you instead of natural geography to guide the players is a tactic that won't sit well with many people.

 

[DalekFlay]

I agree that the map of New Vegas could have been better designed to guide the players who wished to be guided, while freeing others to do as they wish.

If you ask me, if they had switched the location of Goodsprings to be more centrally located or nearer to Vegas, there would be less complaints about things like the Deathclaws and whatnot. The fact that they used high powered enemies that would slaughter you instead of natural geography to guide the players is a tactic that won't sit well with many people.

Yeah. New Vegas was designed a lot like the Fallout and Fallout 2 maps, but in a 3D world. They seemed to focus on small areas and then linked them. You can kind of picture it on a Fallout 2 style world map, an NCR Prison zone, a quarry zone, a truckstop zone, etc. etc. I think that was the philosophy in their heads, and why they perhaps didn't notice the starting area was a little confined. Personally I would have had three main routes out of town in the beginning. Through the NCR prison, if you want to deal with that immediately, through the quarry, with some more obvious sneak routes, and then the easy path to the South.

 

[Slow James]

To be honest, its what the Doctors wanted all along. To make mass accessible "rpgs".

Thing is, you can make an RPG that is accessible AND deep. For fuck's sake... people seem to forget some of the best selling video games of the past decade have been RPGs with turn based combat and silent protagonists. It's the movie-RPGs that have honestly struggled.

You can have a game with insane depth and intricate systems and, as long as you include the ability to swap difficulty, the masses can eat it up. In fact, I'd love to see a game try and measure the player's success (damage taken, amount of KO's, sub-optimal build detection, whatever) and prompt the player to set the "right" difficultly early in the game (with the option to manually set it as well) so that people aren't bored or aren't needlessly struggling. Also, I'd like to see games do a better job teach their mechanics to players outside of a contrived data dump at the beginning of the game.

The only way you turn casuals to grognards is to train them. Game developers aren't interested in doing that, since it's easier to placate them with shiny action combat and sparkly graphics. As gamers, we should widely endorse developers to not hold the hands of gamers, but be proactive in teaching and arming them with the skills to deal with complex systems. The larger that pool of players is, the bigger the market is for people interested.

 

[Lhynn]

I'd love to see a game try and measure the player's success (damage taken, amount of KO's, sub-optimal build detection, whatever) and prompt the player to set the "right" difficultly early in the game (with the option to manually set it as well) so that people aren't bored or aren't needlessly struggling.

I can imagine the prompt

"You just suck at this, do you want to turn the difficulty down? (you pussy)"
Yes (I am a little girl) No (Id like to keep my balls please)​

 

[Slow James]

I can imagine the prompt

"You just suck at this, do you want to turn the difficulty down? (you pussy)"
Yes (I am a little girl) No (Id like to keep my balls please)​

Hey, Ninja Gaiden Black pretty much did that. And with good cause!

Maybe even something where the game could set the beginning difficulty for the player based on some of the first encounters or something, no prompt.

Starting on a "Normal" difficulty is a little backwards, honestly. If you truly do create a perfect difficulty level scale that is designed for the average player, and assuming you have five difficulty levels that apply to each segment of the player population on a bell curve (where only the malt causal of casuals would need your lowest difficulty, but only your most hardcore of hardcore players would need your Nightmare), you are still alienating 60% of your players by placing everyone in Normal by default.

So it would stand to reason that the difficulty is ill-suited for the majority of players. I'd just like to see developers embrace this instead of trying to balance their game in odd ways or to expect the player to change it themselves.

 

[Jaesun]

To be honest, its what the Doctors wanted all along. To make mass accessible "rpgs".

Thing is, you can make an RPG that is accessible AND deep.

Of course you can. But why bother when BioWare's target audience is general console public. They will continue to throw money at them, so they don't need to do shit.

 

[Slow James]

Of course you can. But why bother when BioWare's target audience is general console public. They will continue to throw money at them, so they don't need to do shit.

Can't say I disagree. They have no vested interest in converting the masses, since it's cheaper and easier to do pew-pew-pew action combat on MMO cool downs. Just thought people would respect their craft a little more.

 

[Merlkir]

This actually makes sense and would've been cool to have. Heresy?! We can't have that, can we, Bioware?!

http://mattrhodesart.blogspot.cz/2014/12/dai-divine-heretic.html

 

[Bleed the Man]

This actually makes sense and would've been cool to have. Heresy?! We can't have that, can we, Bioware?!

http://mattrhodesart.blogspot.cz/2014/12/dai-divine-heretic.html

Yep, they're retarded, that's the only explanation I got. Giving narrative significance to the power mechanic? No, that would be cool and interesting, better have it only as a "content gate" and rewards for every quest you make, because having one more power is so fucking rewarding...

Seriously, I'll never be tired of repeating how a major fuck up this game is. They may have fooled the general audience with great production values, pretty landscapes and big areas, but design wise it's some of the worst things this genre has ever seen.

 

[kris]

Seriously, I'll never be tired of repeating how a major fuck up this game is. They may have fooled the general audience with great production values, pretty landscapes and big areas, but design wise it's some of the worst things this genre has ever seen.

You are hinting at the first heading in my upcoming review. I hope to have it ready this weekend when I finally is off-duty again. don't know when @deltrius is ready, but he should be soon and I suspect he will write a much longer than me.

 

[Ninjerk]

Seriously, I'll never be tired of repeating how a major fuck up this game is. They may have fooled the general audience with great production values, pretty landscapes and big areas, but design wise it's some of the worst things this genre has ever seen.

You are hinting at the first heading in my upcoming review. I hope to have it ready this weekend when I finally is off-duty again. don't know when Delterius is ready, but he should be soon and I suspect he will write a much longer than me.

 

[Zed]

I ENTERED THE FADE AND I HAVE RETURNED UNSCATHED¨

34 hours played according to Origin, but at least 2-3 hours were AFK.

+ great music
+ fantastic visuals
+ at times, great writing
- at times, shitty writing
- lack of moral dilemmas
- tacticool combat is shit
- rifts and demons felt repetitive

I played the game in full popamole mode, because the tacticool camera is so shit. It's obviously designed for a controller because you can't select or target more than one character at a time and it's very wonky to move around. It's just an encumbrance. It's really not needed either, unless maybe if you play on the highest difficulty. I played on normal.

Despite all the sex-crazed ravings of their fanbase, I was pleasantly surprised to only experience just a bit of cringy cyberlove. And when Bioromance did rear its ugly head, it showed me tsundere tits, which I had actively sought. Really, you won't get this shit showed down your throat like in Ass Effect or DA2.

I played primarily with Cassandra, Solas and Iron Bull. They were are alright. The rest of the cast seemed pretty damn gay tho.

I myself played as a mage, and later specialized as a Knight-Enchanter or whatever they're called. Basically Jedis with self-sustaining shields granting them immortality.

One let-down was the lack of "epic fights". I didn't seek them out actively, but I only encounter one dragon, and no other Big Bad Optional Boss.

Crafting, like in any single-player game, is bullshit. It does give you useful items tho, but I spent FAR too much time gathering shit without ever using them. I swear --- hundreds of herbs, and I never used a single one.

Also the horse fucking sucked and I never used it.

And the ending confused me greatly.

 

[DalekFlay]

Of course you can. But why bother when BioWare's target audience is general console public. They will continue to throw money at them, so they don't need to do shit.

It's not even the console focus that bothers me most. It's their insistence that some of the things they do (cinematic focus, romance, voiced dialog) are OMG ESSENTIAL to making an RPG in 2014 and getting any sales, yet they sell less copies than games that have none of that shit. To me the biggest reason Skyrim sells what it sells is the freedom to fuck around and mess with shit, and that game has barely any cinematics at all, and no voiced dialog, and it sells 20 million fucking copies. Yet Bioware INSIST they have to make movies because the market demands it, then sell five times less. It's just infuriating.

 

[polo]

I pirated it, and the combat is utter bullshit man. Dafuq is that? Press R or Left Click to constantly attack in the same spot. Eh... ok no. Will try a little bit more tomorrow.

 

[Slow James]

Of course you can. But why bother when BioWare's target audience is general console public. They will continue to throw money at them, so they don't need to do shit.

It's not even the console focus that bothers me most. It's their insistence that some of the things they do (cinematic focus, romance, voiced dialog) are OMG ESSENTIAL to making an RPG in 2014 and getting any sales, yet they sell less copies than games that have none of that shit. To me the biggest reason Skyrim sells what it sells is the freedom to fuck around and mess with shit, and that game has barely any cinematics at all, and no voiced dialog, and it sells 20 million fucking copies. Yet Bioware INSIST they have to make movies because the market demands it, then sell five times less. It's just infuriating.

To be fair/accurate, Skyrim did have all kinds of voiced dialog. Just none for the PC.

But I agree with your evaluation - people bought Skyrim in droves because it didn't try and mess up the formula that sold copies in Oblivion - be able to run around, explore stuff and just DO shit in this world. They made a vastly improved Oblivion (although still not as deep of a game as Morrowind) and it sold based on that merit.

Bioware hasn't made an improved game with DA:I. They've made an entirely new game. A game which they had no experience making (and it shows), directed at the wrong market (and it shows) and which doesn't accomplish nearly the same things previous games in the series did (and it shows). It keeps coming back to brand identity and Bioware not having the slightest clue how to make a Dragon Age game, because at this point, that means a million different things to a million different people. They can't possibly effectively cover every base they now need to, yet they try and (again)... it shows. Everything about their design is a compromise and there remains no fundamentals to base a game on, let alone a series.


I'm really curious to see what the December sales will be on this game. We've seen those "the sky is falling" November numbers, but that is such a small, distorted view for less than two weeks on the market. End of December will bring us through Week 6 and the Christmas rush, while end of January will bring us to Week 10 and the "close" of the real high volume of sales for most games. If the game drops like DA2 in weeks 3-6, THEN there will be some serious "oh shit" moment going on at Bioware. If, on the other hand, the numbers we've seen remain steady and within the dips seen between most games, there is little doubt in my mind that this will be one of their best selling games of all time.

If so, then best believe a sequel will be in the works before you can say "PC Players first."

 

[Onholyservicebound]

I played the game in full popamole mode, because the tacticool camera is so shit. It's obviously designed for a controller because you can't select or target more than one character at a time and it's very wonky to move around. It's just an encumbrance. It's really not needed either, unless maybe if you play on the highest difficulty. I played on normal.
.

Even worse is that it's broken shit anyways, the few times I tried to use it were in areas with a lot of terrain elevation, enemies on almost any hill or bump are impossible to target, and I've never needed it outside of that. As well using your Gears of War ability on downed teammates doesn't work 90% of the time in the shit tactical view.

 

[Sykar]

Isn't the ambassador chick in Inquisition from the same area? She seems Italian, more than anything else.

Whatever, whole thing is a clusterfuck anyway.

Josephine is Antivan, which is modeled after Italy. I don't know of any Rivanni in DA:I outside of Vivienne, but I haven't played the game.

EDIT: And agreed, just like everything Dragon Age (or Bioware, really) their overall lore and long term story telling consistency is shaky, at best.

Well, the 9.0 earthquake in Japan a few years ago was also kinda shaky, if you get my drift.

For what it's worth, games like DA:I just shows how rotten gaming journalism is again.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dragon-age-inquisition

8.6 points average by the "professionals", 5.8 points by the "amateurs". Makes me think that the average gamer is a better game journalist than these jokers from "serious gaming magazines".

 

[Turjan]

At this stage they can just make "games" in the style of Telltale adventures. Then they can keep making their dialog-heavy cutscenes and finally do away with what they consider gameplay nowadays. I doubt it would make the games any worse.

 

[Cyberarmy]

At this stage they can just make "games" in the style of Telltale adventures. Then they can keep making their dialog-heavy cutscenes and finally do away with what they consider gameplay nowadays. I doubt it would make the games any worse.

Didn't ME3 had difficulty named "Story" like you described already? Trivials (or maybe skips ?) the combat and lets you experince its story in its full "glory"...