The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk - parodic fantasy tactical RPG - now with Back to the Futon DLC

[Darth Canoli]

I had the issue about the 20 seconds for enemy turns...

... until I realize it is the auto-save was wild and saving is poorly optimized. Removing the auto-save (only possible in the March patch) made fights go litterally 5 times faster.

Also, I really don't get the feedback with the BB2D engine.

Thanks for the tips, i'll try that when ... Well, with Hearkenwold release, probably next october or something.

he first one at the end of the tutorial. I've spent the whole day trying to beat it on Epic, but my party always gets obliterated... Funny thing, I can beat it easily on Ballad (Normal) difficulty, but I'm afraid things will be boring on Normal after a while.

You already passed it in normal mode, still.

I had to reload for this one on epic too.
Second time, i just waited for them to make their move and played more carefully, protecting the elf, the wizard and the thief and trying to flank them.
There's probably some better dice rolls involved as well.

 

[Rincewind]

I had the issue about the 20 seconds for enemy turns...

... until I realize it is the auto-save was wild and saving is poorly optimized. Removing the auto-save (only possible in the March patch) made fights go litterally 5 times faster.

Also, I really don't get the feedback with the BB2D engine.

Thanks for the tips, i'll try that when ... Well, with Hearkenwold release, probably next october or something.

he first one at the end of the tutorial. I've spent the whole day trying to beat it on Epic, but my party always gets obliterated... Funny thing, I can beat it easily on Ballad (Normal) difficulty, but I'm afraid things will be boring on Normal after a while.

You already passed it in normal mode, still.

I had to reload for this one on epic too.
Second time, i just waited for them to make their move and played more carefully, protecting the elf, the wizard and the thief and trying to flank them.
There's probably some better dice rolls involved as well.

Yeah, I just switched back to Epic around the end of half of Chapter 2 and enjoying it a lot now. Dunno, maybe that was just a hard fight plus I wasn't that familiar with the mechanics yet.

 

[Rincewind]

Well, my conclusion is that the difference between Normal and Epic difficulty in this game is just weird. I keep switching back to Epic from time to time, but no matter what, the fights just seem impossible. The AI is really aggressive in Epic and usually the enemies are heavilly overpowered and your party is most of the time outnumbered. I couldn't beat any of the "boss" fights in Chapter 3 on Epic, I could take only a few enemies down before my party gets obliterated, while on Normal I can win with minimal HP loss and sometimes no K.O.s at all. Dunno, just feels weird, there's too large a gap between Normal and Epic. I'd prefer something inbetween the two. Probably you guys are better than me, but Epic seems no fun to me.

 

[Gregz]

Well, my conclusion is that the difference between Normal and Epic difficulty in this game is just weird. I keep switching back to Epic from time to time, but no matter what, the fights just seem impossible. The AI is really aggressive in Epic and usually the enemies are heavilly overpowered and your party is most of the time outnumbered. I couldn't beat any of the "boss" fights in Chapter 3 on Epic, I could take only a few enemies down before my party gets obliterated, while on Normal I can win with minimal HP loss and sometimes no K.O.s at all. Dunno, just feels weird, there's too large a gap between Normal and Epic. I'd prefer something inbetween the two. Probably you guys are better than me, but Epic seems no fun to me.

Difficulty settings are a relatively new feature in cRPGs. Most game devs are still figuring out how to calibrate correctly for their customer base. It’s a complicated problem actually.

 

[Rincewind]

Difficulty settings are a relatively new feature in cRPGs. Most game devs are still figuring out how to calibrate correctly for their customer base. It’s a complicated problem actually.

That's a good observation. Another thing that I just realised is that in this game you can't grind if you get stuck with enemies that are too hard to beat (for your skills, that is). In most other RPGs you can just go and farm some XP, level up, etc., so you can kind of "self-calibrate" your difficulty curve in a way (encounters too hard? go back and level up some more). While in this game the whole thing is on rails, so it's much easier to hit a roadblock.

Anyway, still enjoying it (on Normal). Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I also find the humour great.

 

[Grunker]

the fights just seem impossible

I'm playing this on Nightmare and even though the beginning is fairly hard (it gets easier later on), it's nothing near impossible. The problem is your tactics.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

the fights just seem impossible

I'm playing this on Nightmare and even though the beginning is fairly hard (it gets easier later on), it's nothing near impossible. The problem is your tactics.

The rng seed thing doesn't help either.

 

[Rincewind]

The problem is your tactics.

Correct observation, I figured that as well. But no matter what I tried, I always got my ass kicked... I guess the only way to get better is just simply play more turn-based games. Sure, probably replaying the same fight 5-10 times would help me too, but that's too tedious... TBH, haven't played many turn-based games in the last 10 years, and actually not too many overall (but I enjoy them a lot, nonetheless).

Any other tips on how to improve? (apart from playing a lot of TB games)

 

[Antigoon]

Stop changing the difficulty once you are facing a challenging fight. Better read some guide, ask here for tips or even watch some YouTube. If you are always adapting the difficulty to your skill level you are never forced to actually change your approach or dig deeper into the systems.

 

[Grunker]

the fights just seem impossible

I'm playing this on Nightmare and even though the beginning is fairly hard (it gets easier later on), it's nothing near impossible. The problem is your tactics.

The rng seed thing doesn't help either.

True, I was working off the assumption that that was turned off. I have no idea why they would include such a horrendous design

The problem is your tactics.

Correct observation, I figured that as well. But no matter what I tried, I always got my ass kicked... I guess the only way to get better is just simply play more turn-based games. Sure, probably replaying the same fight 5-10 times would help me too, but that's too tedious... TBH, haven't played many turn-based games in the last 10 years, and actually not too many overall (but I enjoy them a lot, nonetheless).

Any other tips on how to improve? (apart from playing a lot of TB games)

Sorry, I didn't mean to belittle you or anything, just provide a counter-statement to your opinion that it was impossible. As for how to improve, I dunno. I still can't play Dark Souls even though I enjoy the premise simply because I'm too fucking terrible at those kinds of games and I don't want to go through the process of becoming non-terrible. The best tips I can provide you for this game is:

1) Healing is everything in the early game. All heals are to be taken as early as possible.
2) The difference between tanky and squishy is extremely expressed in DoN. Your dwarf can last multiple rounds against multiple opponents where your squishies would die from just 1 hit from one of them.
3) The key to succes in DoN early-game is making your AoE-attacks and CC count while limiting the success of theirs. I.e. you cannot bunch up against many opponents. This is one of the biggest strengths of the game actually, in many fights I was utilizing the entirety of the battle map. This rarely happens in turn-based games in my experience.
4) At least on Nightmare, I *rarely* had fights where no one went out of the fight, and I *never* had fights without a few people going unconscious. The key here is to judge whether someone going down ruins your chances or is just a price to pay.
5) The game is all about positioning. At the end of the day the differences between skills isn't even that huge. What matters in the early game is your carries are protected so you can use your heals on your tanks (more bang for the buck since each point of healing will last longer).

Finally: use consumables. You get an infinite amount in the long run.

 

[Grunker]

This might also be your problem:

Sure, probably replaying the same fight 5-10 times would help me too, but that's too tedious

I definetely did this on Nightmare for the few levels to learn the system. When I lost a fight I always felt "ah, this is what I did wrong!" so it wasn't that tedious restarting because I knew I had something I wanted to do differently. I dunno if you have to do the same for Normal, but at least on Nightmare I must have reloaded multiple fights more than 10 times in the beginning.

 

[Nortar]

The problem is your tactics.

Any other tips on how to improve? (apart from playing a lot of TB games)

Some tips that work for most tactical games.

1. Try to use terrain to your advantange.
2. Make enemies spread, so they won't reach you all at once.
3. Body-block approaches to your more squishy characters.
4. Make sure you're staying behind cover again ranged enemies.
5. If you can't hide, send someone to enemy archers/mages to engage them in melee, so they won't shoot.
6. Don't expose your back and flanks, always turn to face melee enemies.
7. Mute the elf.
8. Try to find and utilize synergies between skills.
As example, tweak initiative of the Ogre and the Dwarf, so the Dwarf acts right after Ogre's throw,
and can use his axe-twirl right on landing before enemies get to move.
9. And most importantly - control is the key.
Use stuns, knock-downs, caltrops to root melee-mobs in place, break down barrles, so enemies would slip and fall,
release the kraken chicken, so enemeies attack them instead - anything to prevent them from going after you.

 

[Grunker]

A final note: the facing-system is extremely integral to how combat works. You attack someone from the side, behind or with allies assisting you, you *will* hit. You make a frontal attack without assistance, a miss is very likely. Using this knowledge to position yourself correctly you can maximize enemy misses and minimize your own misses. It's one of the reasons I like this game so much. It does something genuinely interesting with to hit-chance, where most games are still stuck figuring out a balance between missing so often it becomes tedious or hitting so often there's no reason for the system. This game actually provides a challenge for the player built in to its to-hit chance.

 

[Antigoon]

And play the AI, Its a bit of a one-trick-pony. The enemy is always going for the backstab, and always for the low HP chars. If you e.g. position your Elf in a way that the boss has to pass all your hard hitting dudes, he will do that eating up all those opportunity effects.

 

[Darth Canoli]

8. Try to find and utilize synergies between skills.
As example, tweak initiative of the Ogre and the Dwarf, so the Dwarf acts right after Ogre's throw,
and can use his axe-twirl right on landing before enemies get to move.

Ogre throw skill is pretty high level skill, he's probably nowhere near unlocking it.

The difficulty comes from enemy skills around level 2-4 while yours are non-existant or just pathetic, the perfect example is the cook fight south of the tavern, he can fireball you while you can't get this kind of skills before another 4/5 levels...

So, don't worry, Rincewind it's not you, it's the game, sure, a seasoned player can make it in nightmare mode (which i didn't play, i played on epic) by reloading again and again, relying on lucky rolls and some good tactics but when you're outclassed skill wise, it's mostly luck and initiative that saves the day.

 

[Rincewind]

Sorry, I didn't mean to belittle you or anything

No worries bro, didn't take it that way at all! I was just a bit frustrated when I wrote my post is all. Thanks for the great list of tips guys, especially

3) The key to succes in DoN early-game is making your AoE-attacks and CC count while limiting the success of theirs. I.e. you cannot bunch up against many opponents. This is one of the biggest strengths of the game actually, in many fights I was utilizing the entirety of the battle map. This rarely happens in turn-based games in my experience.

Interesting, I thought the key is to bunch up so I can protect my weak characters. But that never really worked out great because they could always just get behind my ranks and one-shot-kill the weakest by backstabbing them anyway. And yeah, I got constantly hit by AoE-attacks. I'll try using the whole map now.

7. Mute the elf.

Finally: use consumables.

I'm using bombs like no tomorrow. Btw, I'm finding the buff consumables a bit useless partly because of the limited belt slots, plus because they take up a whole turn; I'm just using health potions or bombs, basically.

A final note: the facing-system is extremely integral to how combat works. [...] It's one of the reasons I like this game so much.

I like that a lot as well (but also find it infuriating when it's used against me, haha). Kinda reminds me of the Gold Box combat, from memory that also had facing, backstabbing and attacks of opportunity, which was great.

Stop changing the difficulty once you are facing a challenging fight.

Now that's a good point. I just won the fight against the two golems in Reivax's office on normal, but somehow it doesn't give the same satisfaction and sense of accomplishment as just barely surviving and winning a fight on Epic.

And play the AI, Its a bit of a one-trick-pony. The enemy is always going for the backstab, and always for the low HP chars.

Noticed that too, it's doing it quite aggressively but only in Epic mode. In Normal I just started noticing it's making many mistakes, e.g. not always positioning for backstabbing when the opportunity arises. That, coupled with reduced enemy HPs and damages (I think?) definitely makes things a bit too easy on Normal.

Anyway, I appreciate the tips, gentleman. Time to git gud!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

. Mute the elf

If I mute the elf I cannot hear her dying repeatedly.

 

[gurugeorge]

The problem is your tactics.

Correct observation, I figured that as well. But no matter what I tried, I always got my ass kicked... I guess the only way to get better is just simply play more turn-based games. Sure, probably replaying the same fight 5-10 times would help me too, but that's too tedious... TBH, haven't played many turn-based games in the last 10 years, and actually not too many overall (but I enjoy them a lot, nonetheless).

Any other tips on how to improve? (apart from playing a lot of TB games)

You know what I would do in your position? Just start a fresh game with the tutorial on (and just up to the end of when the explanations are finished), and really closely pay attention to every word and graphic there. Some games are similar enough to other games, yet different enough in other respects, that one labours under a false impression at first. I did that myself, and it was quite enlightening wrt a few subtle things I'd not noticed. (I did the same with Troubleshooter, which also is different enough, and has a very good tutorial intro).

But as some others have said, it might just be that you were unlucky. It's a serious problem with games with RNG on the hardest difficulty, that you can play well enough but RNG can really screw you over. It kind of makes playing on the hardest difficulty out of the gate a bit pointless sometimes (PFP:K is another case in point) - unless you're simply a masochist

 

[Desiderius]

It also feels like AI is tougher than it really is because they unload all their worst attacks in the first round. I had fights where everyone but the Wiz would get knocked out and I’d still come back and win.

Ranger group defense buffs are probably most important thing?

 

[Watser]

It's so damn satisfying to push an enemy back, triggering a chain event of AoO to see the enemy get absolutely mauled.

 

[Grunker]

Ranger group defense buffs are probably most important thing?

This. The accuracy one is a trap - at early levels damage mitigation is OP, at later levels resistance is

 

[Erebus]

Currently playing the game on Epic and enjoying it. I'm just done with the fight against the king of the Chaos Dwarves (and his golems and soldiers) ; though I did manage to win on my first attempt, it ended up being a close thing, mostly because the king hits like a truck.

I was a bit worried that the game might turn out to be a half-assed cash grab (name recognition sells and the Naheulbeuk audio series is fairly well-known in France). But the combat is really enjoyable, interesting and challenging. Once I've finished the game on Epic, I intend to retry it on Nightmare difficulty and I suspect it will live up to its name.

The humor and the general atmosphere are not exceptional, but I think that they're fine (some of the jokes are references to the audio series and probably don't work well for players not familiar with it). The exploration is unfortunately very limited and the game is really linear.

Man, I keep dying on the Wheel of Misfortune fight on Epic difficulty, and I'm usually good with turn based games... Am I missing something??? On to my 4th retry...

The Wheel of Misfortune is one of the few fights that took me three tries before I managed to win ; I don't really want to imagine what it's like on Nightmare difficulty !

On my last try, I gathered most of the party on the right flank (the side of the goblins) and left only two characters to tank in the middle (the dwarf and the paladin, I believe). That way, it takes a while for the orcs to reach you (the less time you waste fighting them, the better) and you can quickly get rid of the goblins.

The fight ends as soon as you've killed the goblin boss and his assistant. I think it's better to get rid of the assistant first (especially since her charm ability can be really annoying). She'll charge straight at your characters, so you don't have to chase after her. She has a lot of HP, but her saves aren't that great and she's quite vulnerable to stunning attacks and things like that.

The goblin boss has very high Evasion and very good saves, so I wouldn't bother with him until you can attack him with at least three characters. Ideally, he should be trapped in a corner to make it completely impossible for him to run away (you can't rely too much on attacks of opportunity, because one of the effects of the Wheel disables them for your party).

Difficulty settings are a relatively new feature in cRPGs

Not that recent. They existed in Gold Box games, though they were very basic back then (they only changed how many HPs your enemies had, and you would get more XP on higher difficulty levels, which went against the very concept of making the game more difficult).

 

[Rincewind]

You know what I would do in your position? Just start a fresh game with the tutorial on (and just up to the end of when the explanations are finished), and really closely pay attention to every word and graphic there.

I did just that today and you know what, you were right; it helped and it turned out I missed some subtle details about the mechanics!

 

[gurugeorge]

You know what I would do in your position? Just start a fresh game with the tutorial on (and just up to the end of when the explanations are finished), and really closely pay attention to every word and graphic there.

I did just that today and you know what, you were right; it helped and it turned out I missed some subtle details about the mechanics!

Not all games have such precise and detailed tutorials as this game or Troubleshooter, but I've found that if they do it's usually worth doing that trick. When one starts a game it's always a bit confusing and one tends to gloss over things.

 

[Erebus]

For those of you who've tried several of the optional PCs, which one did you think was the most useful in combat ? I picked the paladin and she's okay, but she doesn't really stand out. I'll pick one of the other two when I retry the game on Nightmare difficulty. Probably the priestess (more healing sounds like a good idea), unless the minstrel turns out to have some really useful powers.