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The EVE online thread

Unkillable Cat

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The problem with (ship) manufacturing these days is that CCP introduced a new layer of materal requirements into the process, starting (IIRC) at the Cruiser-level and up, even for basic T1 hulls. I mean parts like Life Support Systems and such. Faction ships are hit the hardest with this, to the point that it was unfeasible to produce them for the longest time, but the market may have adjusted itself since then.

More important was the nerf to Hi-Sec logistics, as they introduced a new layer of nullspace called 'Triglavian space' which they made by stealing 27 systems and linking them into a new region (Pochven). One of those systems (Niarja) was a chokepoint in the Amarr/Caldari trade route, meaning that all trade going through Hi-Sec now had to make more jumps, which drove up Hi-Sec manufacturing prices... which inevitably raised the price of everything in the game, as Hi-Sec is still the king of trade/production.

Pochven adds more options for fight-thirsty players, as the Triglavians are essentially a fifth race with their own line of ships and weapons (only available to Omega-players) and now with their own space to play in.

A decade ago I played EVE for a few months, during the Apocrypha expansion, when you were able to walk around in your apartment inside a space stations, and you used EVElopedia as your guide. I remember the character creator being pretty impressive, with you being able to click and drag your character's facial muscles. Only other game that came close was Black Desert.
They removed the apartment some years ago, as that line of development became a dead end. They've since upgraded the hangars to become more dynamic in appearance, but only in the citadels.

I think I started out as Gallente. I distinctly remember I wanted to get one of those cool Wormhole ships that you could visually customize (did the devs ever release more of those kinds of ships?).
No, they didn't. the original idea for the Strategic Cruisers was 5 sections of hull, with each having 5 different modules to insert, to create a large amount of configurations. They had to roll out the system with only 3 modules available, and later adding the fourth set of modules. The fifth set has never materialized.

The closest thing that's been added are the Tactical Destroyers, which can be set in one of three modes (speed, tank, firepower). Really powerful in the right hands, I used to see them regularly many years ago, but I'm just realizing that I haven't seen then in-game for quite a while. Probably got nerfed somehow.

Another method of visual customization available are the SKINs. Instead of allowing players to paint their ships, pre-determined paintjobs are made available... for RL-cash, of course.
Some guy in system chat randomly gave me millions of ISK, which I then impulsively blew on buying the biggest ship I could pilot and afford, a Caldari battlecruiser. Looking at EVE University, I think it was Ferox. Ofcourse I was a total noob and didn't know how to make the best use of it, let alone outfit it properly. A couple days later I got into a fight with someone (don't recall whether I was travelling through low sec and got preyed upon, or if I was a total moron and shot first at someone) and got blown up. I had no cash left and the thought of grinding up from zero was really disheartening, so that was the end of that. In retrospect I should have just bought extra destroyers so if I lost a ship, I didn't start from zero again. But I realized I just wasn't into the gameplay or the aesthetics of the game. There were a couple memorable music tracks, though.
One positive thing that's happened is that EvE finally has a decent New Player Experience through what is called the AIR Program. It's basically a list of Achievements to accomplish to score rewards which will get you up and running, and it's heavily tied into the Career Agents that were already present in-game. You'll get frigates, destroyers, industrials, the means to produce cruisers, some cash and even some SP to speed things up. The AIR Program is available to any player, meaning even seasoned vets who have been away from the game can use it as a refresher.

The latest batch of "new ships" released in the game are faction-variants of Exploration frigates, destroyers and battlecruisers, to tie into the revamp of the Faction Warfare-system. Clearly aimed at low-end gudfites, and more options on that front are always welcome.

What is a point of concern for EvE are the 'capsuleers online'-number. When I started playing back during Revelations 2, there were about 18.000 players online on average, and those numbers grew through the years. Lately those numbers have not only shrunk, they've shrunk to below Revelations 2-numbers. Today's player count is equivalent to what it was back in 2006 or thereabouts. That has both advantages and disadvantages.
 

Ranselknulf

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Good information, and I agree, the ship manufacturing process is overly complicated, but attempting to set up logistics for it is fun for me at least. The planetary industry management interface is also one of the worst interfaces I've ever seen in a video game.

For server population, the game doesn't feel dead to me, plenty of people trying to kill me.

The past two weeks average online population has been about 19,000 players. Weekends get up to 24,000 players.

https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

I like it not being too crowded myself, but there is still a market to sell to with that number of people.
 
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I see the PLEX system has changed substantially since I played (it used to be 1 PLEX = ~500m ISK = 30 days = $14.99 or maybe $19.99), but right now it seems you can get 2BN+ ISK for $25 worth of PLEX. God knows how much inflation there's been since 2012, but it's probably been an awful lot.

Considering how many untold hours of your life you're spending on highsec manufacturing, there is no shame in buying a few billion ISK one time via PLEX, which will keep you in Rifters and even CovOps and intys out in lowsec for literal months as you train your pilot(s) in actual combat skills. By the time your paypig ISKies are scheduled to run low, you will long since have figured out whether or not you'll enjoy the game. You'll have either made it, or washed out and quit.

In fact, I can probably give you the ISK if by some miracle I can figure out how to get into my accounts (I've given billions to Codexers before). We'll see.
basically every MMO is like this now

"hello dear player, do you wish to spend $15 oooor grind for 500+ hours?"
 

Ranselknulf

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Yes, the Plex to hour grinding ratio seems insane. Can get billions in isk for a few dollars.

The real issue is transporting expensive stuff around as a noob. It makes you a juicy target for pirates.

There are plenty of stories of credit card warriors getting their cheeks clapped, so I don't transport billions in stuff. It could be an option though, I've been reading on these cloaked haulers and stuff.
 

Blaine

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They removed the apartment some years ago, as that line of development became a dead end.

Arguably, it was a dead end from the very beginning and a total waste of resources. The monocle/"greed is good" era was fuckin' hilarious.

No, they didn't. the original idea for the Strategic Cruisers was 5 sections of hull, with each having 5 different modules to insert, to create a large amount of configurations. They had to roll out the system with only 3 modules available, and later adding the fourth set of modules. The fifth set has never materialized.

The closest thing that's been added are the Tactical Destroyers, which can be set in one of three modes (speed, tank, firepower). Really powerful in the right hands, I used to see them regularly many years ago, but I'm just realizing that I haven't seen then in-game for quite a while. Probably got nerfed somehow.

They definitely got nerfed, and on purpose; it's planned obsolescence. There's ample opportunity to test new hulls on Sisi, but what CCP actually wants to do is release shiny awesome new OP ship class, then nerf it as quietly as possible later after the hype and furor (and economic/social/PvP stimulation) wear off.

What is a point of concern for EvE are the 'capsuleers online'-number. When I started playing back during Revelations 2, there were about 18.000 players online on average, and those numbers grew through the years. Lately those numbers have not only shrunk, they've shrunk to below Revelations 2-numbers. Today's player count is equivalent to what it was back in 2006 or thereabouts. That has both advantages and disadvantages.

This is always an interesting topic, but as always it's worth noting that player counts used to be inflated hugely by mining bots, ratting bots, personal scout alts, training alts, chat monitoring alts, carebearing alts, and just multiboxing in general.

I suspect the amount of these has lessened substantially in the last decade due to various changes I don't care to enumerate or am not aware of, though I'm sure the active player count has been and is declining.
 

Ranselknulf

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covid.png
 

Higher Game

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They really do hate miners in this game. You can't even read a book for 15 minutes before some edgelord ganker shows up to "pwn" you with their riced up cruiser. The afk positions are more noble than those dirtbags. :argh:
 

Axioms

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The planetary industry cheat sheet.

https://hanns.io/pi/
Is PI still the most time efficient ISK method? I assume so as they add more stuff that uses it.

If EVE hadn't been on the decline so hard for the last 10 years I might have been motivated to get back in. 3bil isk an hour was good money back in 2017.
 

Axioms

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3bil isk an hour was good money back in 2017.
and 10 years earlier 3b in wallet made you ungodly rich.
I think anyone who could afford a titan was in the 1%, which was like 70bil fully fit, in 2017. Most players could not run a PI setup capable of 3bil like I could. That's 108 characters with max PI skills and good hauling skills and an almost unused part of 0.0 with good PI planets. Took roughly 7 hours a day of doing mining heads, hauling, filling factory worlds, etc. Then you needed to get ice and also a market. I was selling mostly to corp and sometimes alliance and then paying for Jita shipping but I had several characters almost done with JFs when I quit. I could fly them but not with optimal fits and skills.
 

Blaine

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They really do hate miners in this game. You can't even read a book for 15 minutes before some edgelord ganker shows up to "pwn" you with their riced up cruiser. The afk positions are more noble than those dirtbags. :argh:
Hatemail

I haven't played the game in over a decade, we're not in the game client now, and yet despite that I've been gifted with this great hatemail.

Response: EVE isn't an idle clicker, and those fine, upstanding players were simply teaching you what happens if you leave the game running while AFK. Also, there are a lot of bot miners in EVE (always have been), so if you were AFK mining they objectively have the moral high ground as you've made yourself indistinguishable from a bot.
 

Ranselknulf

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The planetary industry cheat sheet.

https://hanns.io/pi/
Is PI still the most time efficient ISK method? I assume so as they add more stuff that uses it.

If EVE hadn't been on the decline so hard for the last 10 years I might have been motivated to get back in. 3bil isk an hour was good money back in 2017.

Idk what is most efficient for isk. I just buy the omega time with real money.

It seems that a month of game time is about 2.5 billion ISK if you use the plex conversion for what most people sell at.

I'm mostly interested in planetary industry because I like to be able to make the ships I'm likely to get blown up in.

I can set up three planet industries right now, but I think six is the maximum, so I got a ways to go, and I'll probably need at least one alt doing planetary ndustry also if I'm going to really set up a steady stream of manufacturing using these parts.
 

Axioms

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The planetary industry cheat sheet.

https://hanns.io/pi/
Is PI still the most time efficient ISK method? I assume so as they add more stuff that uses it.

If EVE hadn't been on the decline so hard for the last 10 years I might have been motivated to get back in. 3bil isk an hour was good money back in 2017.

Idk what is most efficient for isk. I just buy the omega time with real money.

It seems that a month of game time is about 2.5 billion ISK if you use the plex conversion for what most people sell at.

I'm mostly interested in planetary industry because I like to be able to make the ships I'm likely to get blown up in.

I can set up three planet industries right now, but I think six is the maximum, so I got a ways to go, and I'll probably need at least one alt doing planetary ndustry also if I'm going to really set up a steady stream of manufacturing using these parts.
PI was probably 3x more efficient for isk earning, with low risks and low costs if you had access to good null space already. At the time I played people were upset that it cost 1bil isk to buy enough PLEX to sub. It would have cost me 40bil a month then vs apparently 100bil now since I had lots of accounts. Presumably PLEX didn't rise by itself so it might even out.

Does PI make ships now? It used to make towers and then citadels.
 

Ranselknulf

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The parts from planetary industry are needed to make the best ships.

Take a Rorqual for example: Link
To make one with a capped blueprint it'd take 5000 chiral structures, 7000 water, and 7600 bacteria, etc.

We still haven't started on moon mining, which I think is what all those other weird rocks are from, but we are working on setting up an athanor construction line. We got the blueprint for it and are upgrading it while we figure things out.
 

Axioms

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The parts from planetary industry are needed to make the best ships.

Take a Rorqual for example: Link
To make one with a capped blueprint it'd take 5000 chiral structures, 7000 water, and 7600 bacteria, etc.

We still haven't started on moon mining, which I think is what all those other weird rocks are from, but we are working on setting up an athanor construction line. We got the blueprint for it and are upgrading it while we figure things out.
They added T1 PI to ships? That is certainly interesting. I have millions or tens of millions of T1 materials just sitting around. Though they might be in asset safety these days. If that is still a thing.
 

Ranselknulf

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The parts from planetary industry are needed to make the best ships.

Take a Rorqual for example: Link
To make one with a capped blueprint it'd take 5000 chiral structures, 7000 water, and 7600 bacteria, etc.

We still haven't started on moon mining, which I think is what all those other weird rocks are from, but we are working on setting up an athanor construction line. We got the blueprint for it and are upgrading it while we figure things out.
They added T1 PI to ships? That is certainly interesting. I have millions or tens of millions of T1 materials just sitting around. Though they might be in asset safety these days. If that is still a thing.

If only it were that simple, you still have to craft the intermediate parts, like the example I listed requires a "Capital Core Temperature Regulator" as an intermediate part which in turn requires chiral structures and some P3 or P4 parts also.

List for example of just that one intermediate part. Some of those are from reactions also, which I should be able to unlock soon. I have about 900k skill points unallocated so I could spend them immediately to unlock it if i want, but i'm not ready to take on the reaction aspect just yet. Time limitations and all that for me.

The list below shows 85 integrity response drones and 85 self-harmonizing power cores, which are both P4 planetary industry items for manufacturing.


Core Temperature Regulator 600
*
Pressurized Oxidizers
25,4070 13,751.88 ISK
adj
349,394,015.16 ISK
*
Reinforced Carbon Fiber
25,4070 13,343.35 ISK
adj
339,014,493.45 ISK
*
Chiral Structures
5,0820 1,194.90 ISK
adj
6,072,481.80 ISK
*
Water
5,0820 575.60 ISK
adj
2,925,199.20 ISK
*
Integrity Response Drones
850 2,872,650.97 ISK
adj
244,175,332.45 ISK
*
Self-Harmonizing Power Core
850


Something like this Rorqual though, if mass produced would be about 5 Billion ISK profit every 5 days (construction time then sell on market). If you manufactured all the stuff yourself ofc.
 
Last edited:

Axioms

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The parts from planetary industry are needed to make the best ships.

Take a Rorqual for example: Link
To make one with a capped blueprint it'd take 5000 chiral structures, 7000 water, and 7600 bacteria, etc.

We still haven't started on moon mining, which I think is what all those other weird rocks are from, but we are working on setting up an athanor construction line. We got the blueprint for it and are upgrading it while we figure things out.
They added T1 PI to ships? That is certainly interesting. I have millions or tens of millions of T1 materials just sitting around. Though they might be in asset safety these days. If that is still a thing.

If only it were that simple, you still have to craft the intermediate parts, like the example I listed requires a "Capital Core Temperature Regulator" as an intermediate part which in turn requires chiral structures and some P3 or P4 parts also.

List for example of just that one intermediate part. Some of those are from reactions also, which I should be able to unlock soon. I have about 900k skill points unallocated so I could spend them immediately to unlock it if i want, but i'm not ready to take on the reaction aspect just yet. Time limitations and all that for me.

The list below shows 85 integrity response drones and 85 self-harmonizing power cores, which are both P4 planetary industry items for manufacturing.


Core Temperature Regulator 600
*
Pressurized Oxidizers
25,4070 13,751.88 ISK
adj
349,394,015.16 ISK
*
Reinforced Carbon Fiber
25,4070 13,343.35 ISK
adj
339,014,493.45 ISK
*
Chiral Structures
5,0820 1,194.90 ISK
adj
6,072,481.80 ISK
*
Water
5,0820 575.60 ISK
adj
2,925,199.20 ISK
*
Integrity Response Drones
850 2,872,650.97 ISK
adj
244,175,332.45 ISK
*
Self-Harmonizing Power Core
850


Something like this Rorqual though, if mass produced would be about 5 Billion ISK profit every 5 days (construction time then sell on market). If you manufactured all the stuff yourself ofc.
Lol I've made 100s of 1000s of P$ in my time. I actually quit just before I was gonna ramp up to full power or it'd be in the millions. Good old IRDs. I preferred Wetware Mainframes or w/e they were called but all P4 was half decent profit.
 

Ranselknulf

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That's the nice thing about this game, there are lots of ways to make money.

For me, I'd like to log in on the weekend, have a few billion isk waiting for me, then I can go fly around doing whatever.
 

Higher Game

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Is it just me, or is the market freakishly efficient in comparing buyers vs sellers in different regions (especially taking into account the sales tax), but freakishly inefficient in comparing sellers vs sellers in different regions? It's basically impossible to find any haul arbitrage in that bid/ask spread, but just buying in cheap regions and making offers in expensive regions just from the seller's perspective looks underutilized (just check the volume bros). And it's surprising, given how many business psychos supposedly play Eve.

Damn it I'm becoming a Jew. :keepmyjewgold:
 

Ranselknulf

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Who say's I'm not.

:smug:


To make money from arbitrage you need to use some sort of code/script to analyze the variety of data sources out there (quickly, but that goes without saying). You can boot strap something like that if you have a passion for coding, Asfasdf seems p. good at this stuff.

I probably could figure it out if I spent enough time looking at it, I have used Power BI which can scrape data from multiple websites and use it as part of an algorithm analysis for comparison to spreadsheets and databases, but I don't want to get a personal license for that type of shit at home and you can't share that type of stuff either (each person needs a license to share), so its not viable for vidya.

Either way, I'm sure people have been neckbearding this game so long that they've just about turned the game into an automation call to arms. The question then becomes can you make code and bot better than the other neckbeard.

I'm not a coder, but I enjoy poking around with the stuff. I might have to learn some more python soon anyhow, so I can probably help asfasdf with his efforts soon.
 
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All the market trading fancy stuff has been done already. Big players like PL, Goons, etc. have lots of programmers who make their lives easier. Market botting is also a thing, though it's against EULA. If you don't care about that, you can achieve a lot. If you do care, you can still do lots and lots of things with clipboard manipulation and some overlays. Not going to give you any code obviously :D
 

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