Official RPG Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

The Eye of the Beholder Thread

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Saint_Proverbius, Nov 25, 2002.

  1. Don Peste Arcane

    Don Peste
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,647
    Location:
    ||☆||
    https://www.gamebanshee.com/news/124926-gb-feature-eye-of-the-beholder-content-overload.html
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 6
    • Cheers!! Cheers!! x 2
    • incline incline x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2019
    Messages:
    9,473
    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Been waiting literally 30 years for this.
     
    • Cheers!! Cheers!! x 3
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. Ethaliel Novice

    Ethaliel
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Somewhere Far Beyond
    Yeah, that's my motivation to finally finish playthrough of EOB started couple of years ago
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • nice nice x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2019
    Messages:
    9,473
    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I finished it a couple times way back when and it felt super-satisfying doing it all on my own but it was obvious there were all kinds of things I missed and no easy way to find out what they were.
     
    • incline incline x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. anvi Cipher Village Idiot

    anvi
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Messages:
    5,510
    Location:
    Kelethin
    I've completed all of the games years ago but I could never get the party transfer thing to work. I am looking forward to playing through them all again someday but with the same party. I like to binge watch good TV, I also like to binge play good games!
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Nixheb Arcane

    Nixheb
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    france
    Ok.
    Yesterday, I was crawling this page :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_video_games_with_available_source_code

    I almost had an hearth attack when I saw the line :

    Eye of the Beholder II: The Legend of Darkmoon 1991 2021 Role-playing game Westwood Associates The source code was released on archive.org in 2021.[122]

    I downloaded the zip, mascara tears rolling on my cheeks, my body ready to enjoy the SOURCES of a game that defined WHO I AM today...

    To discover a bunch of junk hastly stuffed inside. Some bits of EOB3 aesop source code, dump from rpgcodex pages, aso...

    Can anybody confirm that I'm not totally nuts and this is really some junk and we need to have it removed from here and there ?
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Excited! Excited! x 2
    ^ Top  
  7. Joonas Arcane Developer

    Joonas
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2011
    Messages:
    140
    Location:
    Finland
    Yeah, that's just stuff and threads to get EOB3 running with the AESOP/32-engine.
     
    • Excited! Excited! x 2
    ^ Top  
  8. Eisen Learned

    Eisen
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2020
    Messages:
    132
    What the hell, why they put "EOB 2" in the title?
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    88,665
    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
  10. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    22,514
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    ^ Top  
  11. DaveO Erudite

    DaveO
    Joined:
    May 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,185
    Don't make the mistake of installing the third game in the series. End on the second one and pretend the third does not exist. #3 is just bad design on many levels.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    ^ Top  
  12. Generic-Giant-Spider Arcane

    Generic-Giant-Spider
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,317
    Location:
    Every fantasy game ever.
    I tried out the GBA version of EOTB on emulator recently. I have a secret enjoyment of trying ports of games just to see how it stacks up to the main one.

    The whole battle system is overhauled to be turn-based, you see monsters in first person and then get sent into an isometric battle screen where you see these miniatures/figurines of your guys and the enemies. It's actually not bad at all, on the surface. You can move about, positioning matters more than ever, and sometimes you can get really slammed when you're randomly set up to where two guys are surrounding your wizard.

    But the big thing is this isn't AD&D like the original, it uses 3E. I would use the word "uses" very loosely because this implementation is botched, actually tons of things in this game are. A majority of skills are useless or don't work. Some spells are also mysterious or wrong in their application. For example, Cure Moderate Wounds uses d8 while Cure Serious Wounds uses d6. It's not exactly what you'd call an upgrade, is it? I'm also confident that Poison only affects Fortitude saving throws and doesn't actually apply proper Constitution damage, you'll never actually put a living target to death.

    You're also never really told how certain skills actually work in the game itself. "Hide" is one of these. You are never given any sort of in-game indication through UI or visual that the beginning of every fight if your Rogue has high enough Hide then they can't be targeted by the enemy until they make any action. I don't even know if what I'm saying is true, I just noticed when skipping turns to use my Cleric the enemies would always avoid the Rogue despite being right there around him.

    Overall an interesting "remake" of EOTB even if it does fuck up tons of stuff be it rules implementation or coding flaws. The turn-based figurine battle system is pretty cool and I know the original EOTB's real time first person blobber combat is something you either like, tolerate or despise.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Interesting Interesting x 2
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2019
    Messages:
    9,473
    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Sounds like Realms of Arkania.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Boleskine Arcane

    Boleskine
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,329
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it x 1
    • Bro, do you even lift? Bro, do you even lift? x 1
    • /facepalm/ /facepalm/ x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    22,514
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I get that he has no background in Dungeons and Dragons (to the point that he mixes up the concepts of Dual-Classing and Multi-Classing) and he does bring up many good points of criticism at the game... it still doesn't justify ignorance on this level.

    # "And perhaps one of the most pivotal 3D dungeon crawls ever to be produced, as it set numerous standards which other 3D crawls have mimicked since then" (Dungeon Master by FTL Software? Never heard of it! [​IMG] )

    # He doesn't think to try punching enemies.

    # "Even though the game is pretty good at tracking stats, it doesn't allow you to see your exact Hit Points at any moment after character creation." [​IMG] (Though he does mention that in the updated video description.)

    # "Enemies are not capable of randomly spawning." (They start doing so on the second floor of the game, albeit via designated spawn points. [​IMG] )

    # Actually believes the manual is telling the truth all of the time (it isn't, though that's a recurring problem with AD&D games by SSI).

    # "This isn't a very long game, in terms of actual content. I spent about eight hours getting about one-third through the game, but that only amounted to completing four maps, as there are only a total of twelve maps" [​IMG] Twelve maps of which nine happen to be "massive" by his own description, and are intertwined with one another, bursting with secrets, traps and puzzles, all of which can and will stump even people like him.

    So yeah, ADG gotta ADG.

    On a small aside, this got me thinking about the game's actual release date. Those who know it seem reluctant to share it, and online sources aren't 100% reliable. What I've been able to piece together is that it was definetely out by February 1991, though it may have been released a little earlier, possibly in time for Christmas 1990. Most game mags didn't pick up the game for review until May or June '91, though. Wikipedia 'tards out by stating:

    The former number comes from the SSI archives themselves, while the latter comes from an ad blurb for the game. [​IMG]
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 8
    ^ Top  
  16. Nixheb Arcane

    Nixheb
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    france
    [​IMG]

    I don't know when the teaser demo where released exactly regarding the final release, but it was packed in the summer 1990 (judging by the timestamp of the files).
     
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 3
    ^ Top  
  17. Darth Canoli Arcane

    Darth Canoli
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Messages:
    4,210
    Location:
    Perched on a tree
    I don't like RT blobbers but still, EotB and Dungeon Master (i got my hand on a Amstrad pirated* cassette of the latter back when i was in high-school) are classics, millennials spreading their ignorance on videos should be put down, for the greater good.

    Well, i never completed the game, it was interesting but the RT system wasn't for me.

    Show Spoiler
    *Before internet, we were making copies of original cassettes using a simple recorder and trading it in the black-market high-school just to play games we wouldn't have bought otherwise.



    A real remake/fix of this version would be amazing EotB with a good and polished TB combat system would be a real marvel.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    22,514
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Good point Nixheb I went and checked my disk images (v1.6, which was preceded by at least one other version).

    The oldest date I could find there was February 18th 1991, and the newest date was April 29th.

    So it looks like the first version (v1.4?) was sent out to the masters in February, but reviewers got v1.6 or even v1.7.
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. Elwro Arcane

    Elwro
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    11,540
    Location:
    Krakow, Poland
    Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
    The narration for the ADG video is just sad. Why would you go make videos about an old game you're ignorant about?
     
    ^ Top  
  20. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    15,921
    Location:
    Bjørgvin
    I couldn't get further than "And perhaps one of the most pivotal 3D dungeon crawls ever to be produced, as it set numerous standards which other 3D crawls have mimicked since then".
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • /facepalm/ /facepalm/ x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Nixheb Arcane

    Nixheb
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    761
    Location:
    france
    Talking about those versions, I can't remember if there is any playable beta version floating somewhere - below 1.4 ?
     
    ^ Top  
  22. Jarpie Arcane Patron

    Jarpie
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    5,817
    Codex 2012 MCA
    Sadly, I think Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back is largely forgotten outside of our circles, even though they were fucking big hits back in the day, and they still look great graphically despite being from 1987-88.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    22,514
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Dude, Dungeon Master was massive.

    It dared to try to portray with graphics what had up to that point been portrayed with numerical tables (and it succeeded). It caught people's eyes early in its three-year development. It is the single-biggest selling title on the Atari ST, and it forced thousands of envious Amiga-owners to purchase memory upgrades (to the point that retailers started lumping the game with the memory upgrade in a package deal) and it is "the most pivotal 3D dungeon crawls ever to be produced, as it set numerous standards which other 3D crawls have mimicked since then."
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    15,921
    Location:
    Bjørgvin
    And yet it's mostly forgotten today, while the inferior Eye of the Beholder is not.

    Part of the problem is of course that it's not available on Steam or GOG, and not for sale if out of mind for most people, even though free remakes exist.
     
    • [citation needed] [citation needed] x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    88,665
    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Excited! Excited! x 1
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.