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What would Grimoire's flaws be? Genuinely curious

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
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Eastern block
This game literally cures OCD developed by min-maxing and save-scumming.
Is this a challenge.

The random rolls + distributable portion approach is meant to provide a reasonable compromise rather than min-maxing or rolling forever. It's very much in the style of Wizardry games.

I like any system which tells me to stop obsessing over "perfect" builds and just enjoy the game. Imo it's much better than Sawyerism
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,689
Location
Perched on a tree
Hi, i wanted to create a new thread to share my opinion but let's use this one instead.

I'm not going to comment on the 20 years wait since i found out about this game only after it's first release, it's probably a good thing someone has enough determination to keep going that long, even if it has its flaws.

About my gameplay, i played it once upon release and got stuck on the first part of the game, milked it as much as i could and stopped after i got bored for being stuck.
I tried again with the latest version a couple of days back, still on the first part but playing with the walkthrough support.
Started with 7 chars aiming to fire one to recruit rosy and the human cleric.
Starting party was 2 berserk (one to fire), one warrior, one ranger, wiz, sage and bard with the intend on multi-classing (berserk> ranger - warrior > berserk - ranger > assassin - cleric > paladin - wiz > sage - sage> thaumaturge - rosy > necromancer - bard > jester )

The Good :

- Wizardry like system (mostly because of nostalgia )
- Blobber gameplay
- The many NPC and the ways to get them
- The scent of nostalgia (yeah, it counts twice, what can i say, positive arguments are hard to find )
- The quests are well done and interesting
- I really like how detecting secrets works (true sight kills a bit of the fun though )

The Bad :

- The UI isn't terrible, it's just bad, no tooltips is a pain, you need to put a character to assay, then take an item and click it on the assay icon ...
- the attack stab / thrust / swing options that sometimes prevent you from starting a combat turn, just another nuisance (and so UNnecessary )
- Generic loot (just not fun )
- Level scaling, they say ? I didn't notice it, looks like the mobs get weaker and weaker, i even OSed the mummy in AQUAVIA with the cursed dagger (maybe a lucky lethal blow trigger, didn't see the message but the dagger was destroyed so might be the dagger, disappointing )
- the auto-level up screen, a terrible idea, if i want to get the better of my level up, or at least not the worst, it becomes a real pain, specially to get some hp on the magic users
- the inventory, of course, well, not that bad but if you start to shoplift and hoard things, you find out it's extremely limited

The Ugly :

- The windowed mode, even on fullscreen (fullscreen with black borders doesn't count ), TERRIBLE, specially when i'm used to play far away from my screen and i can't read SHIT (windowed + small font )
- Early on, it can be extremely tough, then, it's just a breeze, no idea which area to take on to get an even experience but it's probably not possible
- Balance is terrible, on my second try, i started in the skull area, had to avoid random encounters, luckily it's short and jump to Crowl through the portal only to fight firebugs at level one ...
Then, searching for the tavern and exploring (should have stayed outside with swarms of firebugs but it was dangerous as well ) some houses, i fought a helldog or whatever that was which wiped half my team which was already crippled
- The closed looped you're imprisoned on in the first part of the game, if you outlevel it (level 3/4), you're still stuck in and need to endure its lame and useless battle, i just wish we could skipp it and go on with the rest of the game
- walking decreasing STAMINA with less than half encumbrance (one char) and less than fourth encumbrance
- having to sleep regularly to recover STAMINA (might be vitality but i replayed Wiz 8 with enhancements so i'm a bit confused with the vocabulary )

Conclusion :

From my point of view, it's a shame, i want to like it but the engine is too lackluster, it really shows its 20 years, also, the level scalling isn't working very well (although some monsters still hit hard when they land a crit )
I recently played elminage gothic (didn't finish it) and original (same ), wiz 8 enhanced (with the fast battle/anim mod wich is life saver and The Quest : islands of ice and fire (halfway)

Grimoire could be the game of the year or even the best rpg of the last 10 years with a better engine from those games (i don't like the city exploration system from elminage, though)
A real playable fullscreen is a minimum, being able to switch to check the walkthrough another requirement
So, it's good, it's bad and it's terrible altogether, not sure young players can stand it though, probably only playable with the oldschool rpg nostalgia.

Really, with the quest engine which isn't much and some UI fixes it could be the game of the year, right now, i think it's failing to target even its audience.

Also some questions :
- i've read from multiple sources dwarves (barrowers) have the best mana regen and picked one as a wizard and an aeorb.
Not only Rosy (feyfolk ) regens mana as fast (possibly faster ) but her STAMINA regen is far better, is it a bug ?
I'm starting to think feyfolks is the only viable option for magic users.
What about drows ? Do they have a better stamina regen and a good enough mana regen ?

- anyone with a save right after the first part of the game ? Maybe i would enjoy it more from then, not sure i can muster enough strength to get past it.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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What about drows ? Do they have a better stamina regen and a good enough mana regen ?
I recall my drow spell-caster having slow mana regeneration, though this might have been changed in a later patch. If I'd known ahead of time, I would have selected a different race for that character.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
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Messages
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Perched on a tree
I've read the wiki, guides and shit, still, i feel like feyfolks have a better mana regen than barowers and they seem to have a far better vitality regen too.

Maybe i should have a full feyfolk party, paladin feyfolk, berserker feyfolk in front line to make sure all my opponents run in fear (or laugh to death )
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,383
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
Regarding slow mana regeneration, keep in mind there are at least two items that increase the regeneration rate of the character equipped. So you can have your human and drow spellcasters, and they will regain their mana as quick as the other races.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
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Maybe Cleve tweaked it, I don't know. It certainly makes sense that Feyfolk would have faster regen than others.
 

Baxander

Augur
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
234
Location
Brisbane, Australia
1. Balance. It is terrible. Cleve has tried to make it more manageable with each patch, and it has improved, but still magic user heavy party with NPC mages added in make the game facepalm easy.
2. Too many unused features. Cleve FINALLY put in the Spirit mechanic...that blue bar just sat there full and drove me crazy. Lots of useless skills, crafting is useless, interface is cluttered and clumsy.
3. Inconsistent art style. World graphics look cartoony, while character portraits aim for more realism. Many of the NPC models look like they don't fit in with the overall look of the game.
4. Horrible optimization. I had to change my desktop to 1024x768 to get the game to run in fullscreen every time. Bugs. Crashes. Corrupted saved games. No cloud saves.
5. Levelling is way too slow at higher levels.
6. Overpriced. Game should be 24.99.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
1. Balance. It is terrible. Cleve has tried to make it more manageable with each patch, and it has improved, but still magic user heavy party with NPC mages added in make the game facepalm easy.
2. Too many unused features. Cleve FINALLY put in the Spirit mechanic...that blue bar just sat there full and drove me crazy. Lots of useless skills, crafting is useless, interface is cluttered and clumsy.
3. Inconsistent art style. World graphics look cartoony, while character portraits aim for more realism. Many of the NPC models look like they don't fit in with the overall look of the game.
4. Horrible optimization. I had to change my desktop to 1024x768 to get the game to run in fullscreen every time. Bugs. Crashes. Corrupted saved games. No cloud saves.
5. Levelling is way too slow at higher levels.
6. Overpriced. Game should be 24.99.

shut yer whining trap. Wait for V2.

Then wait for subsequent patches.

Wait for V3.

???

Realize that CRPG's are not meant to be played. They just exist to test out patience.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
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Messages
12,028
Grimoire has no flaws. Any assertions to the contrary are scurrilous aspersions cast by invidious melonheads on the noble neanderthal race.

kA3m1cp.png
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
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Messages
5,689
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Perched on a tree
grimace

Don't remember exactly what i did except for the enhanced mod/patch but i saved a couple of pages, here's one for the enhanced patch :

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/wizardry-8-enhancements-a-call-to-arms.79581/

also might have add christian's coder mod (or not) which is here :

http://www.jeffludwig.com/wizardry8mod/

Then, when you installed at least the enhanced version i recall you need to launch wiz fast anim and wiz fast speed (in your game directory if you followed the instructions), don't be shy, set the monster's speed to the max.

If you already played wiz 8 or if you're an "experienced" player, you should play at a higher (max ?) difficulty, the mod(s) makes the game far easier than i remember, arnika road wasn't even a thing.

--

As for Grimoire, i tried to change the display resolution to 1024x768, it works, it's just another nuisance.
Also, i stopped playing it, reading the walkthrough alone gave me a headache.
 

Valky

Arcane
Manlet
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Aug 22, 2016
Messages
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Location
Trapped in a bioform
These enemies that have random instakill attacks scattered in maps like dragonflies and those harpoon enemies. It's bullshit and does nothing but prompt a swift save scum.
It's perfectly possible to create a well done enemy that is a challenge without being one sided for or against. I've gone against a good number of them so far. Encounters like Black Pierre that throw status effects at your party, slowly taking them more and more out of commission, allowing them and their grunts to whittle your life down; these are manageable and require you to be on your game every turn by curing different status conditions and trying to paralyze or otherwise stop the caster from affecting your party, and will defeat you if you aren't paying attention the whole fight. Very enjoyable and well done, nothing about them is unfair or too easy.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,640
Location
Grand Chien
Shit graphics and animation, shit UI, shit music, shit character models... it's painfully obvious how many people worked on this game. Pretending it has no flaws is fucking hilarious, lmao

Edit: obviously I don't mean that Grimoire should have been made in Unreal 4. What I meant was that the art fucking sucks. The character portraits alone are an utter abomination.
 
Last edited:

Incendax

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
892
Dragonflies and similar instakill enemies. Constitution does NOTHING.

XP requirements. I wish they were flatter, so frantic multiclassing wasn’t so easy / single class characters have more value.
 

Lady_Error

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The instakill enemies keep you on your toes, but since they are not too powerful you can cast armor shield several times on those maps. That way they won't penetrate armor.

As to multiclassing, many races can do it only a few times. And even with a Barrower you need to plan ahead meticulously to be able to multiclass a lot.

And for the popamole graphics whore above: the graphics do exactly what they are supposed to, namely create a good atmosphere and let you use your imagination to fill in the blanks. Which in turn creates a kind of immersion you probably never experienced.
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
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Messages
7,800
Graphic quality obviously isn't an issue. Some of the NPCs looking like they're from anime is kind of an issue.
 

Lady_Error

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Well, it is sort of an issue, but not a big one. Other than Raghilda, who else has that graphics style? I think those were some late additions that didn't have graphics for them by the original artist.
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
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Raghilda was the one I was thinking of. I agree that it's not a big issue, but ideally you want consistency in the art direction.
 

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