Decline WRPGs have hit rock bottom

[Saint_Proverbius]

2024: Kingdom Come Deliverance II, maybe something else?

Streets of Rogue 2, bitches!

 

[cvv]

2024: Kingdom Come Deliverance II, maybe something else?

Streets of Rogue 2, bitches!

Archaelund, Call of Saregnar, Dungeons of the Amber Griffin, all dutifully wishlisted. And maybe a few others from our own Incline List.

And who the fuck knows, maybe even Bloodlines 2 will turn out ok after the rejiggle.

 

[Incognito]

Holy fuck. So much blackpilling on a thursday evening.

Pour yourselves a glass of Lagavulin, install any older RPG you haven't tried yet. Exhale.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Pour yourselves a glass of Lagavulin

 

[Be Kind Rewind]

Things have *never* been this bad

What the fuck are you even talking about? If you're talking about genuine RPGs then I had to wait for 17 years between Wizards & Warriors coming out and Cleve's 400+ hour magnum opus Grimoire and it looks like I don't have to wait another 17 years for another fix, with Mystic Land: The Search for Maphaldo coming out in the near future. There's also been numerous smaller releases, like Jettatura, and games with less pedigree and lineage, but that are good efforts, like Felvidek. We even got one of those cinematic open world games that some people mistakenly call RPGs from Daniel Vávra that has more in common with his excellent Mafia from 2002 than Bethesda and Witcher slop.

If you're talking about the split and mainstream games that appeal to retards that don't even like RPGs then that off-shoot has been shit since 1981 when Richard Garriott unleashed Ultima. Another terrible period was when Interplay shat all over the genre with their graphics first games, one of them being a hackjob done in the engine of a failed RTS and the sequel of which turned so-called RPGs into dating sims. Sprinkling them with niggers, faggots and handicapped people as they have started doing changes little.

 

[Baron Tahn]

Its just mainstream AAA stuff that's terrible. There's lots of good indie and AA stuff. Caves of Lore is alright and I'm still getting time out of Owlcat...when I HAVE any time to commit.

 

[Itoh]

I think that the people who complain endlessly about bad AAA games suffer from personal insecurity. They're not primarily interested in "good RPGs" - plenty of those exist and I doubt many even on the codex have played even half of them. What they want is mainstream approval of the part of their identity that involves video games. It's not enough to reinstall Deus Ex or BG2 for the nth time and have fun, they want large companies to produce stuff for them, specifically, while at the same time priding themselves on having tastes better than the great unwashed masses. Easy to see how these two wants are incompatible. It's honestly not so different from browns or homosexuals who demand "representation" everywhere. You can do what you want, of course, but rather than bitching about coal you might find it more satisfying to search for diamonds.

 

[turbo elephant]

Big budget wrpgs are in a dire strait, but if you look around for good smaller titles, you will find them.

But judging from the Codex forum, the actual good games have small threads boobs, and the games that are supposed to be shit have mega boobs threads.

Back in ye olde pre intarwebz days this:

Scored better than this:

PS: it was probably the same in 10 BC or will be in 2671

 

[Butter]

I think that the people who complain endlessly about bad AAA games suffer from personal insecurity. They're not primarily interested in "good RPGs" - plenty of those exist and I doubt many even on the codex have played even half of them. What they want is mainstream approval of the part of their identity that involves video games. It's not enough to reinstall Deus Ex or BG2 for the nth time and have fun, they want large companies to produce stuff for them, specifically, while at the same time priding themselves on having tastes better than the great unwashed masses. Easy to see how these two wants are incompatible. It's honestly not so different from browns or homosexuals who demand "representation" everywhere. You can do what you want, of course, but rather than bitching about coal you might find it more satisfying to search for diamonds.

You're partly right, but it's also the realization that we used to get good production value with our good RPGs. Now you usually have to choose one or the other. You can play Age of Decadence or Fallout 76, but you're not getting another Fallout 1.

 

[Sweeper]

It's not enough to reinstall Deus Ex or BG2 for the nth time and have fun,

I've made this argument before and I'll make it again, Deus Ex and BG2 were the AAA equivalents of yesteryear.
I know you dummies tend to be unable to get this through your thick skull, but games like DE and BG2 weren't made by a small indie devteam consisting of handfull of people, they took entire teams to make... just like Avowed or Veilguard.

 

[Semiurge]

'RPG' has become synonymous with identity politics. The weirdoes adopted the genre because it entails character customisation and other flights of fancy those rotten potato- looking rejects crave.

 

[Gamer29345]

Kicking out all the talented straight white male nerds and replacing them with diversity hires and having woke liberal white women supervising them and doing all the writing.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Itoh]

You're partly right, but it's also the realization that we used to get good production value with our good RPGs. Now you usually have to choose one or the other. You can play Age of Decadence or Fallout 76, but you're not getting another Fallout 1.

This is a reasonable counterpoint, though come to think of it... DO western RPGs actually benefit much from having high production values? (Not trying to be a pedant here.) I've only played a couple of recent major WRPGs - Diablo 4, Cyberpunk 2077, and BG3. Diablo 4 was just okay, and I don't think it would be a worse game if it had cost a fourth as much. Cyberpunk 2077 definitely did, as the design and atmosphere of Night City immersed me in what would've otherwise been a mediocre experience. BG3 is more of a mixed bag - the voice acting and mocap was top notch, and something completely beyond the reach of cheaper games, but didn't quite carry the poor writing. Otoh, if you'd have given Styg an eight figure check I don't think Underrail would have been a hundred times better. It would've looked and sounded better, yes, and some rough edges could've been sanded out, but you wouldn't be left with a fundamentally different experience. And I managed to get really into Ultima Underworld when I played it in 2021, even though it looked and controlled like shit by modern standards.

So I guess based on this limited sample, first person RPGs with immersive sim elements benefit the most from AAA resources. But the core elements of a well-made RPG are its character building, writing, and exploration, none of which require loads of money.

I've made this argument before and I'll make it again, Deus Ex and BG2 were the AAA equivalents of yesteryear.
I know you dummies tend to be unable to get this through your thick skull, but games like DE and BG2 weren't made by a small indie devteam consisting of handful of people, they took entire teams to make... just like Avowed or Veilguard.

I never said they weren't. My point was less about the games themselves and more about people's motives for bitching

 

[JarlFrank]

It is to Tamriel Rebuilt we must place our hope

Absolutely.

I just started playing the most recent version last week, and it surpasses any commercial release of the last twenty years in quality. And there's plenty of quantity, too. Four days of playing deep into the night, and I still haven't left the first little corner of the map, beyond a few excursions into the wilderness to explore dungeons.

And Tamriel Rebuilt isn't even 50% done yet. It'll be glorious once they finish the entire Morrowind mainland.
And on top of that, we're getting the first big Province Cyrodiil release later this year, with a sizeable chunk of the western coast, including plenty of quests and dungeons, and many islands to explore. This is the Cyrodiil as it was supposed to be, not the shitty lame-ass generic fantasyland of Oblivion.
And Skyrim: Home of the Nords is also making good progress on its second public release, almost doubling the area of the first.

We're eating good, Morrowind enjoyers. Real gourmet shit.

Just the small area of Tamriel Rebuilt I've explored this week contained more creativity than the gaming industry has displayed in two decades.

 

[Semiurge]

Real gourmet shit.

I swear this is from Pulp Fiction.

 

[Chippy]

Don't they all get money now for ESG stuff? Is it ESG? Equality...something. *Checks* Environmental, Social, Governance. Western buisness model is just to take the money today, blow it on hookers and cocaine and hope there are more fools & whales tomorrow.

 

[Roguey]

I've made this argument before and I'll make it again, Deus Ex and BG2 were the AAA equivalents of yesteryear.
I know you dummies tend to be unable to get this through your thick skull, but games like DE and BG2 weren't made by a small indie devteam consisting of handfull of people, they took entire teams to make... just like Avowed or Veilguard.

BG2 was one of Interplay's A games, yes. Deus Ex was less than that.

Number of Full-Time Developers: Approx. 20: 1 of me, 3 programmers, 6 designers, 7 artists, 1 writer, 1 associate producer, 1 tech Number of Contractors: Approx. 6: 2 writers, 4 testers

Development Time: 6 months of preproduction and 28 months of production

Fallout, one of Interplay's B games released in 1997, had a bigger core team (30 instead of 20) and a development time of 3.5 years (as opposed to nearly 3). Deus Ex is fully voiced unlike Fallout, but the quality is extremely amateur in a lot of places. Fallout went for quality union actors over quantity.

 

[Butter]

I've made this argument before and I'll make it again, Deus Ex and BG2 were the AAA equivalents of yesteryear.
I know you dummies tend to be unable to get this through your thick skull, but games like DE and BG2 weren't made by a small indie devteam consisting of handfull of people, they took entire teams to make... just like Avowed or Veilguard.

BG2 was one of Interplay's A games, yes. Deus Ex was less than that.

Number of Full-Time Developers: Approx. 20: 1 of me, 3 programmers, 6 designers, 7 artists, 1 writer, 1 associate producer, 1 tech Number of Contractors: Approx. 6: 2 writers, 4 testers

Development Time: 6 months of preproduction and 28 months of production

Fallout, one of Interplay's B games released in 1997, had a bigger core team (30 instead of 20) and a development time of 3.5 years (as opposed to nearly 3). Deus Ex is fully voiced unlike Fallout, but the quality is extremely amateur in a lot of places. Fallout went for quality union actors over quantity.

Fallout's team size ramped up considerably over the course of its production. Was the same true of Deus Ex? I got the impression that John Romero essentially wrote Spector a blank check and they were able to hit the ground running.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

It's not enough to reinstall Deus Ex or BG2 for the nth time and have fun,

I've made this argument before and I'll make it again, Deus Ex and BG2 were the AAA equivalents of yesteryear.
I know you dummies tend to be unable to get this through your thick skull, but games like DE and BG2 weren't made by a small indie devteam consisting of handfull of people, they took entire teams to make... just like Avowed or Veilguard.

Don't tell them Thief wasn't an underground left field type project or that System Shock 2 was one of the most anticipated games of its time, they'll probably lose all of their "street cred".

 

[Roguey]

Fallout's team size ramped up considerably over the course of its production. Was the same true of Deus Ex? I got the impression that John Romero essentially wrote Spector a blank check and they were able to hit the ground running.

Those are the totals. You can check the credits https://www.mobygames.com/game/1749/deus-ex/credits/windows/?autoplatform=true

Yes, he had what he considered a massive budget, and this was a huge leap up from what he had to work with at Origin in the 90s. But it was small potatoes compared to Interplay.

 

[TheKing01]

Pathfinder: WOTR is pure incline, so not sure what you're referring to

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

is MUCH worse than 2008.

I think you need to look at the cRPG releases between 2006 and 2012 again. You can count them on two hands if you exclude yearly vogelware.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

I think that the people who complain endlessly about bad AAA games suffer from personal insecurity. They're not primarily interested in "good RPGs" - plenty of those exist and I doubt many even on the codex have played even half of them. What they want is mainstream approval of the part of their identity that involves video games. It's not enough to reinstall Deus Ex or BG2 for the nth time and have fun, they want large companies to produce stuff for them, specifically, while at the same time priding themselves on having tastes better than the great unwashed masses. Easy to see how these two wants are incompatible. It's honestly not so different from browns or homosexuals who demand "representation" everywhere. You can do what you want, of course, but rather than bitching about coal you might find it more satisfying to search for diamonds.

You're partly right, but it's also the realization that we used to get good production value with our good RPGs. Now you usually have to choose one or the other. You can play Age of Decadence or Fallout 76, but you're not getting another Fallout 1.

But we got Baldur's Gate 3.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Kicking out all the talented straight white male nerds and replacing them with diversity hires and having woke liberal white women supervising them and doing all the writing.

What could possibly go wrong?

A lot of this rolled downhill from tabletop. WotC started woking up D&D starting with 4E and they just kept going, and that pool seems to have no bottom.

 

[SmoothPimp]

There is no bottom.