Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[0wca]

That whole bear encounter makes me think this is going to be another Fallout: The Frontier sitation.

Except...this time I'm not in it.

 

[Herumor]

2h sword or 2h axe?

2h mace.

Who speaks German? https://mein-mmo.de/baldurs-gate-3-interview-swen-vincke-bosewicht/

Because it's beyond my skill to confirm this is an accurate translation:

Spoiler

Hardly any game manages to make you feel like the real villain. MeinMMO editor-in-chief Leya Jankowski believes that Baldur's Gate 3 can fulfill exactly this fantasy. She spoke to lead developer Swen Vincke about how to take the ultimate evil path in your RPG.

It's a hot day in Belgium (Gent) and I've just played the latest version of Baldur's Gate 3. I'm visiting Larian Studios, who are releasing one of the most anticipated RPGs in recent years in August. The game will be released for PC in August , a month ahead of schedule.

During my visit, the developers are announcing the newest "Origin" character. These are pre-made characters that you can play as an alternative to creating your own character. Origins have their own story, which you will discover as you progress through the game.

The Dark Urge is his name, which translates as "The Dark Desire". With him you play a mad, bloodthirsty murderer.

I'm starting to think about the ultimate villain and how Baldur's Gate 3 allows you to live out that very dark fantasy. There aren't many games out there that really allow you to do that.

As I'm led into my interview with Swen and he's sitting peacefully on a park bench with a friendly smile, it was the perfect moment for me to ask him about the ultimate evil guide for his game.

Always follow the dark instinct
MeinMMO: I think Baldur's Gate 3 is a really good game to play an extremely evil character. You did a lot of evil things in your presentation, like murdering a child or sacrificing parts of your group to some absurd plan. I think you are exactly the right person to give me tips on how to play the ultra evil character in Baldur's Gate 3.

Swen Vincke: If you want to be the ultimate evil character, I would recommend playing The Dark Urge and following his instincts. Every time you have the choice to follow his dark thoughts, you do just that. Then you become really evil.

MeinMMO: What do I have to consider when making decisions? What does it involve following a dark path?

Swen Vincke: You get great power when you follow the dark instinct. I don't want to give too much away, but your drive is connected to something very bad. You are often asked to do things that are very evil and if you do so your power will grow very quickly. But you get very lonely and end up alone.

MeinMMO: One of your colleagues told me that if you follow the dark path you will end up alone. Where did this idea come from?

Swen Vincke: When you deal with people who are evil and have a lot of power, everyone wants that power. At some point you have to get rid of them all.

MeinMMO: Aren't there any companions that are more on the evil side that you can take with you?

Swen Vincke: You can definitely take evil companions with you. But you have to give them something. So if you really want to play evil, you just have to get rid of any competition.

If you take a companion with you, you have to trust them up to a point. So I would kill them all. Then I would become an evil god, which is possible. I would kill anyone at the first opportunity so I don't have to deal with them.

MeinMMO: Wait, you can become an evil god?

Swen Vincke: Without giving too much away, yes, you get divine powers.

Few want to be the villain

MeinMMO: Why do you think there are so few games that let you be truly evil?

Swen Vincke: That's a lot of work. We have that in the game because it was important to us that you really got a choice. Every decision has to lead somewhere

Statistically, most people don't play evil anyway. If 95% of your target audience plays well and only 5% plays evil, then it's hardly worth the work. But even if it's few, I believe it's important to have a choice, because otherwise your choices mean nothing.

MeinMMO: Do you have data from early access, what your players did before?

Swen Vincke: I prefer not to look at this data because it would otherwise influence my decisions. We have things in there that are incredibly expensive and only 0.00001% will see them, but that's how I want the game to be.

MeinMMO: Why is it so difficult to implement an evil path? It also has to feel evil when you do something, and not many games can do that.

Swen Vincke: You need a motivation to be bad or good, you need a reason to be somewhere in between. We're on something like 170 hours of cinematics in the game just to serve up different choices. You'll never see all of it, that's impossible. We don't even want you to see all this.

A good villain story needs a reason
MeinMMO: What do you personally think makes a good villain story?

Swen Vincke: A reason to be a villain. So why are you on this path?

At the beginning of the game you meet a few refugees and you decide their fate. You can leave them behind or you can kill them to infiltrate an evil cult. If you take the murderous route you will meet a woman, a drow, her name is Minthara and you can sleep with her.

You meet her again later and she has fallen out of favor with the cult. Now you can choose to kill her again or you can save her by helping her escape. She will then become your companion.

She tells you that she did evil things because she was part of the cult and followed it. She then asks you why you did all those nasty things, what was your reason. Why did you kill all these people? I was controlled, you weren't. So why?

And now you can decide what your motivation was and say that. That's a really good moment when she asks you that. You will also get many interesting answers to choose from.

Money quote:

Spoiler

"If you take a companion with you, you have to trust them up to a point. So I would kill them all. Then I would become an evil god, which is possible. I would kill anyone at the first opportunity so I don't have to deal with them.

MeinMMO: Wait, you can become an evil god?

Swen Vincke: Without giving too much away, yes, you get divine powers."

What exactly qualifies as a "real villain"? Being a murderhobo? Because that's what the Dark Urge char really is, nothing more. They can tack on whatever Bhaal-related shenanigans they want, including you being an amnesiac Bhaal or whatever, but it's ultimately childish, in a way. You kick and scream and kill and maim, and that's the extent of it? No more interesting than a rampaging fiend from the Lower Planes.

There's a few decent games out there that really let you do some really evil shit, like in NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer, you come across this one wounded werewolf and you have the option to skin him alive and offer him up as tribute to Malar. And that's just one thing, without even getting into the whole main plot of the game and one of the endings, which I still consider to be one of the coolest ever made.

 

[Serious_Business]

Complaining that a thread is full of shit and nonsense is like stepping in that working class tavern were people come in to rant and cry after a shift. The place is made for it. Bottom line is, most of this shit is locker talk. It has its charms, and is also disgusting - or perhaps it has its charms because it is disgusting.

The difference is that the ranting and the crying leave a trace because you have to write it down. I don't know how many people are aware that they are producing a kind of cultural artefact by writing down their thoughts on a public forum. Surely future historians will have to work through all of this, and actual historians would have liked to have access to what was said past popular cultural contexts.

All part of something greater. Now I need to stroke my cock so my spell doesn't fizzle out

 

[Jermu]

so how many fireballs you can cast with 1 character in 1 turn
basic action 1
haste 1
quickened Spell 1
action surge
basic action 1
quickened spell 1
= 5 4?
edit actually maybe 5 since if you dip thief for second bonus action

seems like bg3 don't have restrictions with how many spells u can cast in 1 turn

As you already noted, you generally can't use two quickened spells in one turn. Haste doesn't let you cast two spells by its wording.

gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action.

Also bonus action spells must be cantrips.

Casting multiple spells isn't as OP as you think it is due to having to dip fighter and waste an action surge on a spell. I don't think any of the popular OP builds revolve around casting 3+ spells per turn, which isn't really good anyways.

so haste does not give extra action spell? maybe I just misremembered it or it got changed
also I thought bonus action spell must be cantrip was 5e thing not bg3

its not like Im going to try make build around that but interested in game mechanics so I can do some autistic planning

 

[Volourn]

"There's a few decent games out there that really let you do some really evil shit, like in NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer, you come across this one wounded werewolf and you have the option to skin him alive and offer him up as tribute to Malar."

That's your example? FUKK OFF.

 

[Pizzashoes]

I'm looking forward to creating a heterosexual harem of big titty elf/half-elf/githyanki waifus in a modern triple AAA game, and I think Larian is the studio to make this a reality.

 

[BrotherFrank]

Oh wait, she wants to dom you and you have to be a foot stool to romance her?

What are you basing this on

Steam forums. If it was just one person saying it i’d dismiss it but people keep saying you have to kowtow to her bossiness before she warms up to you and very much be a submissive type. But apparently she might also have been toned down due to player feedback? We will see i guess…

 

[Herumor]

That's your example? FUKK OFF.

It's an example because it's not violence for the sake of violence, but rather the blessing of Malar which helps you advance through that part of the game. If you'd played the game, you'd have known as much.

 

[Gradenmayer]

That's your example? FUKK OFF.

It's an example because it's not violence for the sake of violence, but rather the blessing of Malar which helps you advance through that part of the game. If you'd played the game, you'd have known as much.

Malar:

Alignment

Chaotic evil

You are appeasing evil god by doing evil shit.

 

[ArchAngel]

That's your example? FUKK OFF.

It's an example because it's not violence for the sake of violence, but rather the blessing of Malar which helps you advance through that part of the game. If you'd played the game, you'd have known as much.

It is a really terrible example compared to Lich path in Pathfinder 2

 

[Silverfish]

Who cares about flails? All the weapons are the same on 5e they are all the same but some have different dice. What will a flail do?

Flails are the cigarettes of medieval fantasy. They just make you look cool.

 

[Takamori]

Who cares about flails? All the weapons are the same on 5e they are all the same but some have different dice. What will a flail do?

Flails are the cigarettes of medieval fantasy. They just make you look cool.

At least back in 3.5 they had trip and disarm bonuses(thats not saying much). Now they are just a shitty stick with 1d8+STR they managed to make them worse.

 

[Larianshill]

What will a flail do?

1) Each weapon has weapon skills in BG3
2) Flails are cool as fuck

 

[scytheavatar]

What will a flail do?

1) Each weapon has weapon skills in BG3
2) Flails are cool as fuck

Flails are probably not even real weapons:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flail_(weapon)

Despite being very common in fictional works such as cartoons, films and role-playing games as a "quintessential medieval weapon", historical information about flails other than the kisten or derivatives of the peasant flail is somewhat scarce. Some doubt they were used as weapons at all due to the few genuine specimens as well as the unrealistic way they are depicted in art.[14][15][16][17][18] Waldman (2005) documented several likely authentic examples of the ball-and-chain flail from private collections as well as several restored illustrations from German, French, and Czech sources. Nonetheless, he states that the scarcity of artifacts and artistic depictions, combined with the almost complete lack of text references, suggests they were relatively rare weapons and never saw widespread use.[19] One of the reasons was the hazard the weapon posed to its wielder, especially the varieties with long chains and short handles. A missed swing would still retain momentum,[15] and, even if a blow were struck, there may have been a long time before the user could ready another swing.[19]

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

What will a flail do?

1) Each weapon has weapon skills in BG3
2) Flails are cool as fuck

Flails are probably not even real weapons:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flail_(weapon)

Despite being very common in fictional works such as cartoons, films and role-playing games as a "quintessential medieval weapon", historical information about flails other than the kisten or derivatives of the peasant flail is somewhat scarce. Some doubt they were used as weapons at all due to the few genuine specimens as well as the unrealistic way they are depicted in art.[14][15][16][17][18] Waldman (2005) documented several likely authentic examples of the ball-and-chain flail from private collections as well as several restored illustrations from German, French, and Czech sources. Nonetheless, he states that the scarcity of artifacts and artistic depictions, combined with the almost complete lack of text references, suggests they were relatively rare weapons and never saw widespread use.[19] One of the reasons was the hazard the weapon posed to its wielder, especially the varieties with long chains and short handles. A missed swing would still retain momentum,[15] and, even if a blow were struck, there may have been a long time before the user could ready another swing.[19]

What i liked is the reactivity of choices and concequences they put in. They also implementedthe actions and reactions. Got to say they matured a lot since the pre ea release showcase. They put a lot of passion in to it. Sure min maxers tho will have to swallow a bone because there is a strong account also in rolls outside combat.
In before someone starts to cry that his -2Int -2wis -2cha barbarian is considered an idiot xD

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Flails, morning stars and the like were just farming tools. Swords are the only "legit" medieval weapon. The image of a fully armored knight fighting with swords isn't really medieval, but more of a latter medieval/early modern age kinda deal. And even then, those were donned by people who could afford a full armor set, and that kinda dude never really fought in wars with the rest of the armies. Medieval conscription was mostly made out of farmers who lived in the land of a lord. Professional armies are a moden age thing (15th century onwards)

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Swords are the only "legit" medieval weapon

 

[Nerevar]

Aren't polearms and spears the most common/effective weapons?

IRL I feel like halberds and crossbows would be the way to go to get someone trained up quickly and effectively.

 

[Tyranicon]

Aren't polearms and spears the most common/effective weapons?

IRL I feel like halberds and crossbows would be the way to go to get someone trained up quickly and effectively.

Yes, although crossbows are prohibitively expensive to make in Europe and halberds didn't really see common use until around the 14/15th century, towards the end of what most historians would probably consider the middle ages.

The pike and shot era is fascinating, but doesn't get as much love as the time period when everyone was smeared in shit 24/7.

It's hard for our modern brains to wrap around it, but training as a concept for fighting men didn't really catch on until much later.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Flails were never really used in warfare. Do you want to know why?

Historical warfare was conducted not as a bunch of hotshot morons dueling, but in tightly packed groups of men. Now imagine one or more of these twirling a flail around. The most danger from them would be to their own people, getting accidentally hit in the head.

Swords were used in medieval times, but as a sidearm for the most part. Meaning the soldier would carry a primary weapon usually, like a spear, bow, axe, and in some cases a sword as a sidearm. Reasons for this include:

1. Swords are expensive to make.
2. In some places, only nobility could use them, since they were such a status symbol.
3. Swords are harder train and to use effectively than many other weapons.
4. Spears dominated pre-gunpowder warfare: very long range, work great in formation, cheap to make, easy to use.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

imagine trying to whack a nibba and you end up whacking yourself with that fucking thing though. you're an 11th century peasant, and you're probably half drunk like 16 hours of the day after all

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I mean just imagine 100 guys in formation all swinging nunchaks (which is a type of flail). Enemy would not even be needed.

 

[Gargaune]

And even then, those were donned by people who could afford a full armor set, and that kinda dude never really fought in wars with the rest of the armies. Medieval conscription was mostly made out of farmers who lived in the land of a lord. Professional armies are a moden age thing (15th century onwards)

Of course those dudes fought, it's what they did. The feudal nobility governed lands in peacetime and fought in wars. Civilian levies weren't raised for every border skirmish, but whenever there was fighting, there were definitely nobles doing it, often cavalry in full armour, chain up to the 14th century and increasingly plate thereafter. Aside from them, you've got the other "professional" armies in the form of mercenary companies, often landless noble scions looking for opportunities but not exclusively. Their lords might command from the back or lead from the front, but the nobility was always getting action in engagements.

Swords were used in medieval times, but as a sidearm for the most part. Meaning the soldier would carry a primary weapon usually, like a spear, bow, axe, and in some cases a sword as a sidearm.

Yep, this is correct, swords were primarily a backup weapon. Prior to the adoption of plate armour around the 14th century onwards, infantry are primarily using spears, and after that you start seeing more polearms. As a rule of thumb, for combatants in plate, one-handed weapons are for horseback and two-handed are for fighting on-foot.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

I mean just imagine 100 guys in formation all swinging nunchaks (which is a type of flail). Enemy would not even be needed.

medieval warfare in a nut shell

 

[jaekl]

It doesn't matter what weapon a bunch of filthy, toothless peasants would use while fighting in a big square... those guys aren't in BG3. We need to know what sort of weapon a trashy romance novel model who spends the first 6 hours of the day primping themselves in the mirror, styling their hair with multiple products and coordinating their outrageously elaborate outfit would use. Probably a purse.