Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Vityaz]

Also i heard the armor doesn't show on your mercs... I get why this wasn't a thing in JA2 but here? Thats really lazy.

Some dumb shit about how "all your mercs would look the same and lose character" according to the devs.
Which means now you got mercs running around in just pink shirts and white chinos or looking like 14 year old emo girls.

Personally, I think it's stupid af. They could have at least have the armor and helmets be visible - e. g. Igor could still have his telnyashka skin, with just a Flak Jacket/Kevlar vest over it, and you could still tell it's him.

BTW: Silent Storm (Sentinels), 7.62/Brigade E5/Marauder or all those JA2 clones already figured this out almost a decade ago..

 

[Jonathan "Zee Nekomimi]

By the love of god, please tell me i can at one point later on buy weapons like the old days. Scavenging shit from dead soldiers sucks ass.

 

[Raghar]

I tried this and I kinda remember how in JA2, you got airfield, and then you got gold mine just next to it. Gunshots were flying, you were looting weapons and buying ammo that was delivered to airport, and you had fairly nice starting position. Now when I tried to find WHERE are internet shops for buying ammo...
...
...

And weapons...
...
...

And body armor...
...
...
...
...
...

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

 

[Raghar]

please tell me i can at one point later on buy weapons like the old days. Scavenging shit from dead soldiers sucks ass.

I heard you can buy guns in flea market, and I also heard that shops doen't restock.

 

[Tyranicon]

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

Some nerdy-ass game dev: "But it'll ruin the BALANCE of our simulation game!"

If your balancing is centered around forcing the player to use expensive WWII guns instead of cheap and effective modern shit, I dunno what to tell you.

>Be someone who is a professional mercenary, kills people and doesn't afraid of anything.

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

 

[Raghar]

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

You could imagine that was all they could smuggle into the country. Before you got airfield everything had to go through border checks.

 

[bobocrunch]

My cope for the bad AI is that they're emaciated African retards, I'd prefer it this way than them all being tactical experts. I was sad at the lack of armor showing on dudes because it's 2023, but they've made up for it a bit in soul with the destruction. A sniper round blasted a hole through this sheet metal house

Is there anywhere to sell shit or does it all go to scrap besides diamonds?

 

[Strange Fellow]

Here's a pro tip for you all: don't sell the diamonds for cash.

please tell me i can at one point later on buy weapons like the old days. Scavenging shit from dead soldiers sucks ass.

I heard you can buy guns in flea market, and I also heard that shops doen't restock.

Yes, there are places you can buy guns and ammo (in the most retarded way possible, but still). Shops do restock, at least on ammo.

Getting my hands on the first machine gun in the game, and subsequently mowing down entire enemy squads, may have something to do with it.

Yes, machine guns are awesome, but they chew through ammo like a motherfucker. I'm constantly starved for 7.62, and I'm only running one MG.

Is there anywhere to sell shit or does it all go to scrap besides diamonds?

Haven't found anywhere yet. Scrap everything and be happy, because scrap is a more valuable commodity than cash. You can sell scrap for cash at the market if you want to.


Seriously though, this game is so Silent Storm it's ridiculous. Hilariously OP stealth/sniping, spraying for a million years with yuge machine guns, silly perk trees, mercs that are less cool than JA 1+2 but still all right, land mines everywhere that blow up your entire squad just as combat ends. I'm expecting the Panzerkleins to show up any minute now.

 

[mondblut]

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

>Be someone who is a professional mercenary, kills people and doesn't afraid of anything.

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

To be fair, the low-cost mercs you're hiring at the beginning of JA2 are anything but professional, according to their bios. And the expensive ones do come with reasonably decent toys.

 

[randir14]

The lack of visual armor is even more retarded when you realize every single weapon upgrade is visible on the guns, even something as small as compensators.

 

[m_s0]

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

>Be someone who is a professional mercenary, kills people and doesn't afraid of anything.

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

To be fair, the low-cost mercs you're hiring at the beginning of JA2 are anything but professional, according to their bios. And the expensive ones do come with reasonably decent toys.

I always thought it'd make sense for (post-JA1) AIM to be just a little bit concerned about merc equipment in the low-low tiers - just to maintain some sort of service standard. "Here's a vest and a gun that won't immediately blow up in your face and thus embarass AIM as an organization. We're deducting these out of your pay, have fun. Dipshit." That sort of thing. Some of that gear is comical on those maps.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

What's people's issue with the art? I think it does well at being readable with a good level of quality (aside from animations), the atmosphere during this frantic night battle in the church town was great

Textbook Codex autism.
"Muh pixel art from the '90s" and that sort of shit.
If anything I'd say the game looks better than I was anticipating.

 

[Alienman]

The game is growing on me a bit, despite some persistent frustrations. Getting my hands on the first machine gun in the game, and subsequently mowing down entire enemy squads, may have something to do with it.

You can actually have multiple squads in the same map if anyone was curious.

Overwatch trapping is probably the way to go in this game since the AI is actually braindead and will run towards you, especially if you bait them with something as silly as opening a door.

The fixed camera angles for overwatch are ridiculous and awful.

Only problem I have with MG is the lack of ammo. Otherwise, it's really damn good and fun to use/ambush people with.

 

[Alienman]

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

Some nerdy-ass game dev: "But it'll ruin the BALANCE of our simulation game!"

If your balancing is centered around forcing the player to use expensive WWII guns instead of cheap and effective modern shit, I dunno what to tell you.

>Be someone who is a professional mercenary, kills people and doesn't afraid of anything.

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

I think this is one of the best parts of the game. I love the whole scavenging aspect, using what you find and can scrounge up. Anyway, I always got the impression that AIM is the lowest of low when it comes to mercs for hire, except MERC. And I wouldn't say it's unusual in real life to see mercs use all kinds of weapons from different eras.

 

[ArchAngel]

Combat is Nu-Xcom

That is not correct. Xcom had very abstract boardgamey shooting, this doesn't. It's not perfect, but it is simulating the ballistics. If calling this Xcom, you might as well call Phoenix Point Xcom.

It is really not simulating anything. It is straight hit chance roll and if you miss that roll you miss character completely and at best the bullet can hit something behind although that happens rarely. Phoenix Point is actually simulating it.

Eh, that sounds exactly like this system. It's not like Phoenix Point is something beyond "chance roll". Bullets come out of the gun and will hit random stuff if you miss. It's very much like Silent Storm in that aspect.

Sounds but it is not. In JA3 cover gives straight penalty to attack chance, so does darkness, being prone and many other things like choosing body parts like heads. Game rolls the check and if you miss you miss completely. This is exactly same like in nuXcom. Then in nuXcom they calculate misses that can hit random objects and destroy them. They can never hit another target. JA3 lets you hit other targets in addition to objects.
Phoenix Point gives every weapon a certain circle of possible projectile trajectory. Then it randomly fires projectile inside this circle and lets projectile simulation do the rest. Old UFO did the same. This in effect lets you rarely miss shots from close range. Also in PP you can put enemy head at middle of your circle but still hit torso or hands.
In JA3 if you are close and it is 60% hit chance, it will always be 60% hit chance no matter what you do. That is same shit as nuXcom.

I don't buy your silly hypothesis that game doesn't simulate bullet physics and use nuxcom model of rolling a dice. You have on-the-path hits all the time (no, I am not talking shotgun/grenades), you have visual red overlay notification when you have chance to hit your buddy, you even have fucking "you will lose reputation killing that useless peasant 10 meters behind that brute you trying to burst with your mighty FN FAL" modifier and icon in your targeting preview. Have you actually played fucking game or just theorizing?

Game have ton of problems but that's not one (stupid nuxcom pod mechanics, RTS components, etc etc)

And don't start with "but they released mod showing exact percentages!" crap. First, it's super easy to calculate by many ways by functions which is a core in any 3d engine and second - it's could be as precise as caclulations in openxcom where your snipers have 300% to hit to be really 30% because of all stupid twigs on the way

Activate official mod that shows you numbers and you will see yourself. I do not care what you think, this is how it works. Mod breaks down all bonuses and penalties into exact numbers. All the shit is revealed.

You obviosly have not played game (enough) and you also obviously didn't even read my post (I literally mention devs mod it in my post and why it doesn't mean shit). I literally had occassions when I had to reposition my sniper because he kept dudding his perfect shots to open enemies hitting rail on the roof close to him, exaclty like you miss perfect 666% sniper shots to twigs and branches in openxcom. Keep coping

This post of your is equal to a 10 year old putting fingers in ears and going "Lalalalala".
How are those perfect shots?
You did not get 100% hit chance and missed.

 

[ArchAngel]

I tried this and I kinda remember how in JA2, you got airfield, and then you got gold mine just next to it. Gunshots were flying, you were looting weapons and buying ammo that was delivered to airport, and you had fairly nice starting position. Now when I tried to find WHERE are internet shops for buying ammo...
...
...

And weapons...
...
...

And body armor...
...
...
...
...
...

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

It is another shitty nuXcom design

 

[Strange Fellow]

The absence of an online shop where you can buy equipment is a nuXCOM design? What the fuck are you talking about? Why are you still here?

 

[ArchAngel]

The absence of an online shop where you can buy equipment is a nuXCOM design? What the fuck are you talking about? Why are you still here?

Enemies barely dropping any of the gear they are using is nuXcom design.
I am here to bug you of course. It is all about you.

 

[Tyranicon]

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

Some nerdy-ass game dev: "But it'll ruin the BALANCE of our simulation game!"

If your balancing is centered around forcing the player to use expensive WWII guns instead of cheap and effective modern shit, I dunno what to tell you.

>Be someone who is a professional mercenary, kills people and doesn't afraid of anything.

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

I think this is one of the best parts of the game. I love the whole scavenging aspect, using what you find and can scrounge up. Anyway, I always got the impression that AIM is the lowest of low when it comes to mercs for hire, except MERC. And I wouldn't say it's unusual in real life to see mercs use all kinds of weapons from different eras.

I like scavenging, but I would prefer if it's for things that don't break reality too much. Let's go through the tiers of immersion breaking that JA3 goes through.

1. Stop complaining tier: Enemies don't drop their equipment. This is a standard videogame mechanic and should be expected. Obviously done for balance and to encourage scrounging. This is fine, it's a JA standard.

2. Okay that's pretty bad tier: Some ragtag bunch of assholes who can't even afford clothes or clean drinking water is vastly better equipped than you.

3. My immurshun is broken tier: When mercs (who canonically have done at least some jobs before) show up to the gig in a t-shirt, flip-flops, and a double-barrel shotgun. The gun nut in me is double-overed in cringe laughter. Brodudes, the Remington Model 870 has existed since 1950 and is like 500 bucks.

4. Infinite jest tier: So you capture a fourth-world village and need to arm the people against their oppressors. Okay, you throw them a few Browning Hi-powers (kek) right? Nope, they're fully armed with FAMAS and whatever the fuck bullpup that you magically pull out off your ass. I was very tempted to shoot them to see if they dropped the things.

Jagged Alliance is satire but this is too much satire.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Enemies barely dropping any of the gear they are using is nuXcom design.

bad troll, too obvious, 2/10

 

[m_s0]

It seems they're actually dropping more loot vs JA2, but it feels less significant here. I can't be arsed to pay attention to all the junk I'm collecting, and that's typically a bad sign. Initial gear is garbage, but it seems more effective than it used to be in JA2. Probably map scale at play. We'll see if any of that changes.

Overall, though, early days, but I'm enjoying it for what it is (tm). Does not withstand any serious comparison with JA2, obviously, but it does seem to be going for recreating more or less that feel i.e. with how it differs from XCOM. It's way more gamey, XCOM looms (too) large, yeah, map scale is clearly more JA1 thus far which will never not be disappointing in a JA2 successor, but for the first time in forever at least it's coming across the devs a) knew what they were making b) were actually fucking trying and c) weren't failing from the get-go.

tl;dr: Lowest bar possible, but effortlessly cleared. Is not scam this time.

 

[dsndo]

Can you make your own custom mercs or is every recruitable merc premade?

 

[m_s0]

You get 1 IMP slot, and they give you the option to either take a test, or just skip it and pick the traits manually. Which is nice. With mod support I can't imagine it's going to be difficult to raise that cap, but the problem here is how impossibly bland those mercs seem to be - to the point where skipping IMP is actually a tempting option. JA2 IMPs had a lot more personality than what I see here.

edit: come to think of it, an expanded to account for... 3D... create-a-merc system would be nice for a JA3. Make the models modular and customizable (with decent portrait generation they'll easily surpass the current selection, ugh), add a bunch of voices to pick from (and again: make them not bland as shit this time, please). This is one feature that is very much stuck in 1999 and there's little reason why it should be, budget aside.

 

[Ghulgothas]

The IMP really sticks out like a sore thumb compared to all the other mercs. I actually like the tongue-in-cheek outspokenness in the dialogue and interjects of each regular merc, and having a slot occupied by someone who might as well be saying nothing for how generic they are feels off to me.

I've had Nails, Buns, and Livewire in my first squad covering the Psycho, Negotiator, and Scoundrel traits respectively, and there's been a surprising amount of instances where they speak up to your benefit.

 

[Alienman]

I like scavenging, but I would prefer if it's for things that don't break reality too much. Let's go through the tiers of immersion breaking that JA3 goes through.

1. Stop complaining tier: Enemies don't drop their equipment. This is a standard videogame mechanic and should be expected. Obviously done for balance and to encourage scrounging. This is fine, it's a JA standard.

2. Okay that's pretty bad tier: Some ragtag bunch of assholes who can't even afford clothes or clean drinking water is vastly better equipped than you.

3. My immurshun is broken tier: When mercs (who canonically have done at least some jobs before) show up to the gig in a t-shirt, flip-flops, and a double-barrel shotgun. The gun nut in me is double-overed in cringe laughter. Brodudes, the Remington Model 870 has existed since 1950 and is like 500 bucks.

4. Infinite jest tier: So you capture a fourth-world village and need to arm the people against their oppressors. Okay, you throw them a few Browning Hi-powers (kek) right? Nope, they're fully armed with FAMAS and whatever the fuck bullpup that you magically pull out off your ass. I was very tempted to shoot them to see if they dropped the things.

Jagged Alliance is satire but this is too much satire.

On 2, I wouldn't say they are vastly better equipped, at least not in the beginning. Most of them have bolt action rifles and SMGs, which you get plenty of soon enough.

On 3, this is one of the aspects I like. These are just some crazy dudes and gals (merc tourists) who signed up for AIM, and if you want the real military dudes you got to pay for it. Maybe the weapon smuggling just cost too much for anything heavier. Live off the land type of deal. I remember watching a documentary about south african mercenaries somewhere in Africa, and just getting a small speed boat was a major pain in the ass. I think they had one AK which they shared within the group. Most of the time they just bluffed their way through stuff, but eventually they got government support and got more equipment.

On 4. I agree with this, but it has been like that since the first JA. Not sure how to balance it. But there is a cost for setting up militia, so I assume weapons are included, but then the fact remains why we can't order from that source. Don't know how to balance it.