Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Alienman]

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

Some nerdy-ass game dev: "But it'll ruin the BALANCE of our simulation game!"

If your balancing is centered around forcing the player to use expensive WWII guns instead of cheap and effective modern shit, I dunno what to tell you.

>Be someone who is a professional mercenary, kills people and doesn't afraid of anything.

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

I think this is one of the best parts of the game. I love the whole scavenging aspect, using what you find and can scrounge up. Anyway, I always got the impression that AIM is the lowest of low when it comes to mercs for hire, except MERC. And I wouldn't say it's unusual in real life to see mercs use all kinds of weapons from different eras.

 

[ArchAngel]

Combat is Nu-Xcom

That is not correct. Xcom had very abstract boardgamey shooting, this doesn't. It's not perfect, but it is simulating the ballistics. If calling this Xcom, you might as well call Phoenix Point Xcom.

It is really not simulating anything. It is straight hit chance roll and if you miss that roll you miss character completely and at best the bullet can hit something behind although that happens rarely. Phoenix Point is actually simulating it.

Eh, that sounds exactly like this system. It's not like Phoenix Point is something beyond "chance roll". Bullets come out of the gun and will hit random stuff if you miss. It's very much like Silent Storm in that aspect.

Sounds but it is not. In JA3 cover gives straight penalty to attack chance, so does darkness, being prone and many other things like choosing body parts like heads. Game rolls the check and if you miss you miss completely. This is exactly same like in nuXcom. Then in nuXcom they calculate misses that can hit random objects and destroy them. They can never hit another target. JA3 lets you hit other targets in addition to objects.
Phoenix Point gives every weapon a certain circle of possible projectile trajectory. Then it randomly fires projectile inside this circle and lets projectile simulation do the rest. Old UFO did the same. This in effect lets you rarely miss shots from close range. Also in PP you can put enemy head at middle of your circle but still hit torso or hands.
In JA3 if you are close and it is 60% hit chance, it will always be 60% hit chance no matter what you do. That is same shit as nuXcom.

I don't buy your silly hypothesis that game doesn't simulate bullet physics and use nuxcom model of rolling a dice. You have on-the-path hits all the time (no, I am not talking shotgun/grenades), you have visual red overlay notification when you have chance to hit your buddy, you even have fucking "you will lose reputation killing that useless peasant 10 meters behind that brute you trying to burst with your mighty FN FAL" modifier and icon in your targeting preview. Have you actually played fucking game or just theorizing?

Game have ton of problems but that's not one (stupid nuxcom pod mechanics, RTS components, etc etc)

And don't start with "but they released mod showing exact percentages!" crap. First, it's super easy to calculate by many ways by functions which is a core in any 3d engine and second - it's could be as precise as caclulations in openxcom where your snipers have 300% to hit to be really 30% because of all stupid twigs on the way

Activate official mod that shows you numbers and you will see yourself. I do not care what you think, this is how it works. Mod breaks down all bonuses and penalties into exact numbers. All the shit is revealed.

You obviosly have not played game (enough) and you also obviously didn't even read my post (I literally mention devs mod it in my post and why it doesn't mean shit). I literally had occassions when I had to reposition my sniper because he kept dudding his perfect shots to open enemies hitting rail on the roof close to him, exaclty like you miss perfect 666% sniper shots to twigs and branches in openxcom. Keep coping

This post of your is equal to a 10 year old putting fingers in ears and going "Lalalalala".
How are those perfect shots?
You did not get 100% hit chance and missed.

 

[ArchAngel]

I tried this and I kinda remember how in JA2, you got airfield, and then you got gold mine just next to it. Gunshots were flying, you were looting weapons and buying ammo that was delivered to airport, and you had fairly nice starting position. Now when I tried to find WHERE are internet shops for buying ammo...
...
...

And weapons...
...
...

And body armor...
...
...
...
...
...

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

It is another shitty nuXcom design

 

[Strange Fellow]

The absence of an online shop where you can buy equipment is a nuXCOM design? What the fuck are you talking about? Why are you still here?

 

[ArchAngel]

The absence of an online shop where you can buy equipment is a nuXCOM design? What the fuck are you talking about? Why are you still here?

Enemies barely dropping any of the gear they are using is nuXcom design.
I am here to bug you of course. It is all about you.

 

[Tyranicon]

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

Some nerdy-ass game dev: "But it'll ruin the BALANCE of our simulation game!"

If your balancing is centered around forcing the player to use expensive WWII guns instead of cheap and effective modern shit, I dunno what to tell you.

>Be someone who is a professional mercenary, kills people and doesn't afraid of anything.

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

I think this is one of the best parts of the game. I love the whole scavenging aspect, using what you find and can scrounge up. Anyway, I always got the impression that AIM is the lowest of low when it comes to mercs for hire, except MERC. And I wouldn't say it's unusual in real life to see mercs use all kinds of weapons from different eras.

I like scavenging, but I would prefer if it's for things that don't break reality too much. Let's go through the tiers of immersion breaking that JA3 goes through.

1. Stop complaining tier: Enemies don't drop their equipment. This is a standard videogame mechanic and should be expected. Obviously done for balance and to encourage scrounging. This is fine, it's a JA standard.

2. Okay that's pretty bad tier: Some ragtag bunch of assholes who can't even afford clothes or clean drinking water is vastly better equipped than you.

3. My immurshun is broken tier: When mercs (who canonically have done at least some jobs before) show up to the gig in a t-shirt, flip-flops, and a double-barrel shotgun. The gun nut in me is double-overed in cringe laughter. Brodudes, the Remington Model 870 has existed since 1950 and is like 500 bucks.

4. Infinite jest tier: So you capture a fourth-world village and need to arm the people against their oppressors. Okay, you throw them a few Browning Hi-powers (kek) right? Nope, they're fully armed with FAMAS and whatever the fuck bullpup that you magically pull out off your ass. I was very tempted to shoot them to see if they dropped the things.

Jagged Alliance is satire but this is too much satire.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Enemies barely dropping any of the gear they are using is nuXcom design.

bad troll, too obvious, 2/10

 

[m_s0]

It seems they're actually dropping more loot vs JA2, but it feels less significant here. I can't be arsed to pay attention to all the junk I'm collecting, and that's typically a bad sign. Initial gear is garbage, but it seems more effective than it used to be in JA2. Probably map scale at play. We'll see if any of that changes.

Overall, though, early days, but I'm enjoying it for what it is (tm). Does not withstand any serious comparison with JA2, obviously, but it does seem to be going for recreating more or less that feel i.e. with how it differs from XCOM. It's way more gamey, XCOM looms (too) large, yeah, map scale is clearly more JA1 thus far which will never not be disappointing in a JA2 successor, but for the first time in forever at least it's coming across the devs a) knew what they were making b) were actually fucking trying and c) weren't failing from the get-go.

tl;dr: Lowest bar possible, but effortlessly cleared. Is not scam this time.

 

[dsndo]

Can you make your own custom mercs or is every recruitable merc premade?

 

[m_s0]

You get 1 IMP slot, and they give you the option to either take a test, or just skip it and pick the traits manually. Which is nice. With mod support I can't imagine it's going to be difficult to raise that cap, but the problem here is how impossibly bland those mercs seem to be - to the point where skipping IMP is actually a tempting option. JA2 IMPs had a lot more personality than what I see here.

edit: come to think of it, an expanded to account for... 3D... create-a-merc system would be nice for a JA3. Make the models modular and customizable (with decent portrait generation they'll easily surpass the current selection, ugh), add a bunch of voices to pick from (and again: make them not bland as shit this time, please). This is one feature that is very much stuck in 1999 and there's little reason why it should be, budget aside.

 

[Ghulgothas]

The IMP really sticks out like a sore thumb compared to all the other mercs. I actually like the tongue-in-cheek outspokenness in the dialogue and interjects of each regular merc, and having a slot occupied by someone who might as well be saying nothing for how generic they are feels off to me.

I've had Nails, Buns, and Livewire in my first squad covering the Psycho, Negotiator, and Scoundrel traits respectively, and there's been a surprising amount of instances where they speak up to your benefit.

 

[Alienman]

I like scavenging, but I would prefer if it's for things that don't break reality too much. Let's go through the tiers of immersion breaking that JA3 goes through.

1. Stop complaining tier: Enemies don't drop their equipment. This is a standard videogame mechanic and should be expected. Obviously done for balance and to encourage scrounging. This is fine, it's a JA standard.

2. Okay that's pretty bad tier: Some ragtag bunch of assholes who can't even afford clothes or clean drinking water is vastly better equipped than you.

3. My immurshun is broken tier: When mercs (who canonically have done at least some jobs before) show up to the gig in a t-shirt, flip-flops, and a double-barrel shotgun. The gun nut in me is double-overed in cringe laughter. Brodudes, the Remington Model 870 has existed since 1950 and is like 500 bucks.

4. Infinite jest tier: So you capture a fourth-world village and need to arm the people against their oppressors. Okay, you throw them a few Browning Hi-powers (kek) right? Nope, they're fully armed with FAMAS and whatever the fuck bullpup that you magically pull out off your ass. I was very tempted to shoot them to see if they dropped the things.

Jagged Alliance is satire but this is too much satire.

On 2, I wouldn't say they are vastly better equipped, at least not in the beginning. Most of them have bolt action rifles and SMGs, which you get plenty of soon enough.

On 3, this is one of the aspects I like. These are just some crazy dudes and gals (merc tourists) who signed up for AIM, and if you want the real military dudes you got to pay for it. Maybe the weapon smuggling just cost too much for anything heavier. Live off the land type of deal. I remember watching a documentary about south african mercenaries somewhere in Africa, and just getting a small speed boat was a major pain in the ass. I think they had one AK which they shared within the group. Most of the time they just bluffed their way through stuff, but eventually they got government support and got more equipment.

On 4. I agree with this, but it has been like that since the first JA. Not sure how to balance it. But there is a cost for setting up militia, so I assume weapons are included, but then the fact remains why we can't order from that source. Don't know how to balance it.

 

[Alienman]

The IMP really sticks out like a sore thumb compared to all the other mercs. I actually like the tongue-in-cheek outspokenness in the dialogue and interjects of each regular merc, and having a slot occupied by someone who might as well be saying nothing for how generic they are feels off to me.

I've had Nails, Buns, and Livewire in my first squad covering the Psycho, Negotiator, and Scoundrel traits respectively, and there's been a surprising amount of instances where they speak up to your benefit.

I just view my guy as the silent strong type of leader that for the most part just keep his mouth closed, unless he is talking to important people. However, it is a shame he isn't saying much. I guess they just not wanted to project a personality on him that some might have disliked.

 

[Lemming42]

Got the dev mod that shows chance to hit. Literally improved my enjoyment of the game by like a factor of ten. All credit to the devs for providing the option, and I actually love that they've done it like this instead of as a toggle in the options menu.

Lol @ this battle that occurs after you get out of the "ghost" basement at the old mansion. Proximity C4 and grenade launcher, battle over in two turns.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Overall I'm enjoying my time with the game and as someone who listed for 20 years JA2 like one of his all-time favourites I'm more than a bit perplexed at reading some of the demented rants about "massive flaws" in this game that quite frankly applied even for the old school ones.

The three aspects that I'm finding annoying so far would be:

- The system used to initiate combat is fucking garbage and half of the time you can't even be sure of what's not working, exactly.
- these goddamn mouse pointers on interactive scenario props are finicky at best and you need the precision and cold blood of a fucking surgeon to correctly click on something at the first attempt.

- The inventory is trash, both in terms of functionality AND readability.

 

[bobocrunch]

Got the dev mod that shows chance to hit. Literally improved my enjoyment of the game by like a factor of ten. All credit to the devs for providing the option, and I actually love that they've done it like this instead of as a toggle in the options menu.

Lol @ this battle that occurs after you get out of the "ghost" basement at the old mansion. Proximity C4 and grenade launcher, battle over in two turns.

This battle is almost making me turn the difficulty down because of how fucking insane it is, I don't know if I went too early but the HP bloat is getting retarded. I even cheesed it by hopping to satcom and trying to leave (it forces you into the battle but let me deploy, so I'm trying to hold the mansion)
Hitman: 60 hp
Random Knife-Wielding African (1/10): 100 hp, takes 3 bursts to kill

 

[Lemming42]

Yeah it's a pretty brutal battle. Spamming the shit out of explosives as soon as the battle starts is critical, I doubt I'd have made it otherwise. The groups who spawn near the shed in the corner and the MG guy both walk into proximity mines, then you nade the leader and his pals twice with the nade launcher and switch to the rocket launcher to mop up the guys who are still alive after stepping on C4.

Even then I had a bit of trouble with the guys who rush in from the entrance afterwards.

I have spent pretty much all my explosives on this so if there's another battle that needs cheesing somehwere down the line then I'm fucked.

 

[bobocrunch]

Yeah it's a pretty brutal battle. Spamming the shit out of explosives as soon as the battle starts is critical, I doubt I'd have made it otherwise. The groups who spawn near the shed in the corner and the MG guy both walk into proximity mines, then you nade the leader and his pals twice with the nade launcher and switch to the rocket launcher to mop up the guys who are still alive after stepping on C4.

Even then I had a bit of trouble with the guys who rush in from the entrance afterwards.

I have spent pretty much all my explosives on this so if there's another battle that needs cheesing somehwere down the line then I'm fucked.

Are they supposed to walk into mines if you leave the basement normally? Might be why the fight was so tough for me, but I ended up abusing the AI and funneling them up a staircase after using a sniper to bait. Still lost my IMP dude but that's whatever. With 0 meds and not even AK ammo after this fight, it's looking pretty dire

 

[udm]

I'm more than a bit perplexed at reading some of the demented rants about "massive flaws" in this game that quite frankly applied even for the old school ones.

I mean, it's really just Archangel. Everyone else seems pretty rational about the issues.

 

[Reject_666_6]

 

[Tyranicon]

So I tested, and it doesn't seem like there's any way to get two squads to participate in the same combat? At least not offensively, maybe you can defend towns with two squads or more.

Goodbye overwhelming turn economy. I'll miss those rare times when I had 10 dudes gangbanging the shit out of some poor redshirt. Not like I could afford it with how stingy this game is with money anyways.

 

[Lemming42]

Just moving them into the same square seemed to work for me. I had one squad on an enemy-occupied square, had them wait a couple days while the reinforcement squad arrived, then just deployed them both together on the deployment screen.

Dunno if there's a unit limit though, my first squad was four people and my second squad was two.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Started a new game and finished the tutorial island

Overall annoyance aside I ended up enjoying the game. Having locations being actually designed set piece helps a lot with enjoyment of tactical game

 

[Beowulf]

Just moving them into the same square seemed to work for me. I had one squad on an enemy-occupied square, had them wait a couple days while the reinforcement squad arrived, then just deployed them both together on the deployment screen.

Dunno if there's a unit limit though, my first squad was four people and my second squad was two.

I had a defensive battle with 2 squads - 9 mercs combined.

 

[TheSoul]

How good is the banter from the mercs?