Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Abu Antar]

One thing I would have liked is to initiate turn-based mode at will.

 

[geno]

but in other cases using a rifle with a silencer is way better. I've cleared maps entirely with a single guy using this method.

Whitout savescumming?

 

[ArchAngel]

Combat is Nu-Xcom

That is not correct. Xcom had very abstract boardgamey shooting, this doesn't. It's not perfect, but it is simulating the ballistics. If calling this Xcom, you might as well call Phoenix Point Xcom.

It is really not simulating anything. It is straight hit chance roll and if you miss that roll you miss character completely and at best the bullet can hit something behind although that happens rarely. Phoenix Point is actually simulating it.

Eh, that sounds exactly like this system. It's not like Phoenix Point is something beyond "chance roll". Bullets come out of the gun and will hit random stuff if you miss. It's very much like Silent Storm in that aspect.

Sounds but it is not. In JA3 cover gives straight penalty to attack chance, so does darkness, being prone and many other things like choosing body parts like heads. Game rolls the check and if you miss you miss completely. This is exactly same like in nuXcom. Then in nuXcom they calculate misses that can hit random objects and destroy them. They can never hit another target. JA3 lets you hit other targets in addition to objects.
Phoenix Point gives every weapon a certain circle of possible projectile trajectory. Then it randomly fires projectile inside this circle and lets projectile simulation do the rest. Old UFO did the same. This in effect lets you rarely miss shots from close range. Also in PP you can put enemy head at middle of your circle but still hit torso or hands.
In JA3 if you are close and it is 60% hit chance, it will always be 60% hit chance no matter what you do. That is same shit as nuXcom.

I don't buy your silly hypothesis that game doesn't simulate bullet physics and use nuxcom model of rolling a dice. You have on-the-path hits all the time (no, I am not talking shotgun/grenades), you have visual red overlay notification when you have chance to hit your buddy, you even have fucking "you will lose reputation killing that useless peasant 10 meters behind that brute you trying to burst with your mighty FN FAL" modifier and icon in your targeting preview. Have you actually played fucking game or just theorizing?

Game have ton of problems but that's not one (stupid nuxcom pod mechanics, RTS components, etc etc)

And don't start with "but they released mod showing exact percentages!" crap. First, it's super easy to calculate by many ways by functions which is a core in any 3d engine and second - it's could be as precise as caclulations in openxcom where your snipers have 300% to hit to be really 30% because of all stupid twigs on the way

Activate official mod that shows you numbers and you will see yourself. I do not care what you think, this is how it works. Mod breaks down all bonuses and penalties into exact numbers. All the shit is revealed.

 

[gogis]

Combat is Nu-Xcom

That is not correct. Xcom had very abstract boardgamey shooting, this doesn't. It's not perfect, but it is simulating the ballistics. If calling this Xcom, you might as well call Phoenix Point Xcom.

It is really not simulating anything. It is straight hit chance roll and if you miss that roll you miss character completely and at best the bullet can hit something behind although that happens rarely. Phoenix Point is actually simulating it.

Eh, that sounds exactly like this system. It's not like Phoenix Point is something beyond "chance roll". Bullets come out of the gun and will hit random stuff if you miss. It's very much like Silent Storm in that aspect.

Sounds but it is not. In JA3 cover gives straight penalty to attack chance, so does darkness, being prone and many other things like choosing body parts like heads. Game rolls the check and if you miss you miss completely. This is exactly same like in nuXcom. Then in nuXcom they calculate misses that can hit random objects and destroy them. They can never hit another target. JA3 lets you hit other targets in addition to objects.
Phoenix Point gives every weapon a certain circle of possible projectile trajectory. Then it randomly fires projectile inside this circle and lets projectile simulation do the rest. Old UFO did the same. This in effect lets you rarely miss shots from close range. Also in PP you can put enemy head at middle of your circle but still hit torso or hands.
In JA3 if you are close and it is 60% hit chance, it will always be 60% hit chance no matter what you do. That is same shit as nuXcom.

I don't buy your silly hypothesis that game doesn't simulate bullet physics and use nuxcom model of rolling a dice. You have on-the-path hits all the time (no, I am not talking shotgun/grenades), you have visual red overlay notification when you have chance to hit your buddy, you even have fucking "you will lose reputation killing that useless peasant 10 meters behind that brute you trying to burst with your mighty FN FAL" modifier and icon in your targeting preview. Have you actually played fucking game or just theorizing?

Game have ton of problems but that's not one (stupid nuxcom pod mechanics, RTS components, etc etc)

And don't start with "but they released mod showing exact percentages!" crap. First, it's super easy to calculate by many ways by functions which is a core in any 3d engine and second - it's could be as precise as caclulations in openxcom where your snipers have 300% to hit to be really 30% because of all stupid twigs on the way

Activate official mod that shows you numbers and you will see yourself. I do not care what you think, this is how it works. Mod breaks down all bonuses and penalties into exact numbers. All the shit is revealed.

You obviosly have not played game (enough) and you also obviously didn't even read my post (I literally mention devs mod it in my post and why it doesn't mean shit). I literally had occassions when I had to reposition my sniper because he kept dudding his perfect shots to open enemies hitting rail on the roof close to him, exaclty like you miss perfect 666% sniper shots to twigs and branches in openxcom. Keep coping

 

[m_s0]

It blows my mind that of all the things they could have stolen from nuxcom, they took the free enemy movement when encountered. Was there ANYONE who thought that was a good feature?

nuXcom would be brain dead without the pod scatter mechanics since targets standing in the open suffer from HIGH bonus hit and crit chance against them. Taking all the perks, gear and stat increases into account, that means from early mid-game on most targets caught standing in the open get instagibbed.

Without pod scatter you'd run up to a group and either wipe it in one salvo or cripple it into impotence and mop up the next turn. Rinse and repeat for the majority of the 50-100 hour campaign. Not sure why people imagine that'd be a fun game to play.

The thing is, you can also exploit that quite a bit by triggering the pods to force everything to go to where you want it to be. I do wonder whether that mechanic was a band-aid to fix some other unexpected design flaw, or whether they explicitly designed the encounters with it in mind. I could see it both ways. I can live with it in XCOM, but it never felt especially good. Should have no place in Jagged Alliance.

 

[cvv]

It blows my mind that of all the things they could have stolen from nuxcom, they took the free enemy movement when encountered. Was there ANYONE who thought that was a good feature?

nuXcom would be brain dead without the pod scatter mechanics since targets standing in the open suffer from HIGH bonus hit and crit chance against them. Taking all the perks, gear and stat increases into account, that means from early mid-game on most targets caught standing in the open get instagibbed.

Without pod scatter you'd run up to a group and either wipe it in one salvo or cripple it into impotence and mop up the next turn. Rinse and repeat for the majority of the 50-100 hour campaign. Not sure why people imagine that'd be a fun game to play.

The thing is, you can also exploit that quite a bit by triggering the pods to force everything to go to where you want it to be. I do wonder whether that mechanic was a band-aid to fix some other unexpected design flaw, or whether they explicitly designed the encounters with it in mind. I could see it both ways. I can live with it in XCOM, but it never felt especially good. Should have no place in Jagged Alliance.

I guess it's mostly due to how cover works in XCOM vs. JA.

In XCOM it's more or less binary - you're in cover, you're good XXX you're not in cover, you're fucked. Meaning you can't really jive without pod scatter.

Not sure how cover works in JA3, not played yet, but IIRC in JA2 it's much more granular bc distance is more impactful and there are body stances too.

 

[Hobo Elf]

but in other cases using a rifle with a silencer is way better. I've cleared maps entirely with a single guy using this method.

Whitout savescumming?

I savescummed the shit out of the game at first as I was trying to figure out the kinks of the mechanics. I'd just run around a camp initiating stealth kills just to see how things played out. Now that I've gotten a feel for it I'm much more comfortable with just going with the flow. Things to be aware of: stealth killing is not a 100% guarantee. I'm taking all those perks on level ups that increase this chance. I also have the perk that gives you an additional 5% crit chance per aim level. My sniper is using a Dragunov which has a base 10% crit chance. Sometimes my guy won't succeed at the stealth attack but they have a high crit chance and able to crit hit the enemy to death anyway, which is just as good. Hitting enemies in the melon seems pretty reliable if you are Hidden. Protip: if enemies don't see your character even during combat, you can hide again. Being spotted doesn't mean it's game over.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Hopefully one of the first mods is visible clothing on mercs.

Sorry the first mods are comically large guns and visible chance to hit.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1084160/workshop/

One of the messages in the giant gun mod....

Don't subscribe to this, it will be impossible to remove. I tried:
* Disabling the mod in game.
* Unsubscribing from the mod.
* Verifying game files through Steam.
* Completely uninstalling and re-downloading the game.
I still got the big guns

 

[Space Satan]

So far it is more entertaining than anything that came in tactical gaming so far, since Xcom2 and surely far far better than any trash that vandalized "Jagged Alliance" franchize.

 

[Jonathan "Zee Nekomimi]

One of the messages in the giant gun mod....

Don't subscribe to this, it will be impossible to remove. I tried:
* Disabling the mod in game.
* Unsubscribing from the mod.
* Verifying game files through Steam.
* Completely uninstalling and re-downloading the game.
I still got the big guns

need to use the dev mode/cheats one to fix it.

 

[Tyranicon]

The game is growing on me a bit, despite some persistent frustrations. Getting my hands on the first machine gun in the game, and subsequently mowing down entire enemy squads, may have something to do with it.

You can actually have multiple squads in the same map if anyone was curious.

Overwatch trapping is probably the way to go in this game since the AI is actually braindead and will run towards you, especially if you bait them with something as silly as opening a door.

The fixed camera angles for overwatch are ridiculous and awful.

 

[Vityaz]

Also i heard the armor doesn't show on your mercs... I get why this wasn't a thing in JA2 but here? Thats really lazy.

Some dumb shit about how "all your mercs would look the same and lose character" according to the devs.
Which means now you got mercs running around in just pink shirts and white chinos or looking like 14 year old emo girls.

Personally, I think it's stupid af. They could have at least have the armor and helmets be visible - e. g. Igor could still have his telnyashka skin, with just a Flak Jacket/Kevlar vest over it, and you could still tell it's him.

BTW: Silent Storm (Sentinels), 7.62/Brigade E5/Marauder or all those JA2 clones already figured this out almost a decade ago..

 

[Jonathan "Zee Nekomimi]

By the love of god, please tell me i can at one point later on buy weapons like the old days. Scavenging shit from dead soldiers sucks ass.

 

[Raghar]

I tried this and I kinda remember how in JA2, you got airfield, and then you got gold mine just next to it. Gunshots were flying, you were looting weapons and buying ammo that was delivered to airport, and you had fairly nice starting position. Now when I tried to find WHERE are internet shops for buying ammo...
...
...

And weapons...
...
...

And body armor...
...
...
...
...
...

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

 

[Raghar]

please tell me i can at one point later on buy weapons like the old days. Scavenging shit from dead soldiers sucks ass.

I heard you can buy guns in flea market, and I also heard that shops doen't restock.

 

[Tyranicon]

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

Some nerdy-ass game dev: "But it'll ruin the BALANCE of our simulation game!"

If your balancing is centered around forcing the player to use expensive WWII guns instead of cheap and effective modern shit, I dunno what to tell you.

>Be someone who is a professional mercenary, kills people and doesn't afraid of anything.

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

 

[Raghar]

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

You could imagine that was all they could smuggle into the country. Before you got airfield everything had to go through border checks.

 

[bobocrunch]

My cope for the bad AI is that they're emaciated African retards, I'd prefer it this way than them all being tactical experts. I was sad at the lack of armor showing on dudes because it's 2023, but they've made up for it a bit in soul with the destruction. A sniper round blasted a hole through this sheet metal house

Is there anywhere to sell shit or does it all go to scrap besides diamonds?

 

[Strange Fellow]

Here's a pro tip for you all: don't sell the diamonds for cash.

please tell me i can at one point later on buy weapons like the old days. Scavenging shit from dead soldiers sucks ass.

I heard you can buy guns in flea market, and I also heard that shops doen't restock.

Yes, there are places you can buy guns and ammo (in the most retarded way possible, but still). Shops do restock, at least on ammo.

Getting my hands on the first machine gun in the game, and subsequently mowing down entire enemy squads, may have something to do with it.

Yes, machine guns are awesome, but they chew through ammo like a motherfucker. I'm constantly starved for 7.62, and I'm only running one MG.

Is there anywhere to sell shit or does it all go to scrap besides diamonds?

Haven't found anywhere yet. Scrap everything and be happy, because scrap is a more valuable commodity than cash. You can sell scrap for cash at the market if you want to.


Seriously though, this game is so Silent Storm it's ridiculous. Hilariously OP stealth/sniping, spraying for a million years with yuge machine guns, silly perk trees, mercs that are less cool than JA 1+2 but still all right, land mines everywhere that blow up your entire squad just as combat ends. I'm expecting the Panzerkleins to show up any minute now.

 

[mondblut]

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

>Be someone who is a professional mercenary, kills people and doesn't afraid of anything.

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

To be fair, the low-cost mercs you're hiring at the beginning of JA2 are anything but professional, according to their bios. And the expensive ones do come with reasonably decent toys.

 

[randir14]

The lack of visual armor is even more retarded when you realize every single weapon upgrade is visible on the guns, even something as small as compensators.

 

[m_s0]

Basically, it's weird that enemies are not dropping guns they use.

>Be someone who is a professional mercenary, kills people and doesn't afraid of anything.

>Go into battle with a goddamn revolver and 12 rounds of ammo.

Yeah I hated this about JA 2 as well.

To be fair, the low-cost mercs you're hiring at the beginning of JA2 are anything but professional, according to their bios. And the expensive ones do come with reasonably decent toys.

I always thought it'd make sense for (post-JA1) AIM to be just a little bit concerned about merc equipment in the low-low tiers - just to maintain some sort of service standard. "Here's a vest and a gun that won't immediately blow up in your face and thus embarass AIM as an organization. We're deducting these out of your pay, have fun. Dipshit." That sort of thing. Some of that gear is comical on those maps.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

What's people's issue with the art? I think it does well at being readable with a good level of quality (aside from animations), the atmosphere during this frantic night battle in the church town was great

Textbook Codex autism.
"Muh pixel art from the '90s" and that sort of shit.
If anything I'd say the game looks better than I was anticipating.

 

[Alienman]

The game is growing on me a bit, despite some persistent frustrations. Getting my hands on the first machine gun in the game, and subsequently mowing down entire enemy squads, may have something to do with it.

You can actually have multiple squads in the same map if anyone was curious.

Overwatch trapping is probably the way to go in this game since the AI is actually braindead and will run towards you, especially if you bait them with something as silly as opening a door.

The fixed camera angles for overwatch are ridiculous and awful.

Only problem I have with MG is the lack of ammo. Otherwise, it's really damn good and fun to use/ambush people with.