Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Strange Fellow]

You can see it right here in this very thread. You need the free movement because otherwise the game would be unplayably unfair in the player's favour (never mind that this wasn't the case prior to nuXCOM). I'm sure it must seem that way to people who have never played anything besides that game because its "systems" are a house of cards that will fall apart if you look at it funny, but for real games I absolutely cannot relate to this supposed unfairness.

 

[Beowulf]

JA: BiA is better than this game. Once you get over it not being TB it has other JA2 goodies (like no pod system, big maps, proper shooting systems and inventory and others).

I tried playing JA: BiA and Crossfire, but I never managed to finish my playthroughs. There's something missing in those titles that makes them feel soulless.

Anyway, back to JA3 - I finally got a grasp of how to use Prepared Takedown to perform stealth melee kills. I've also went further into mainland and I can see now that there are big custom maps for important sectors, and a lot of small and boring filler maps.
I like it more than I thought I would - it is a genuinely good game. JA2 it is not and lets be honest - 1.13 is THE golden standard that we compare other tactical games to and there is nothing that can match it.

 

[ArchAngel]

JA: BiA is better than this game. Once you get over it not being TB it has other JA2 goodies (like no pod system, big maps, proper shooting systems and inventory and others).

I tried playing JA: BiA and Crossfire, but I never managed to finish my playthroughs. There's something missing in those titles that makes them feel soulless.

Anyway, back to JA3 - I finally got a grasp of how to use Prepared Takedown to perform stealth melee kills. I've also went further into mainland and I can see now that there are big custom maps for important sectors, and a lot of small and boring filler maps.
I like it more than I thought I would - it is a genuinely good game. JA2 it is not and lets be honest - 1.13 is THE golden standard that we compare other tactical games to and there is nothing that can match it.

Same for me but I have also never finished JA2 because after a while gameplay become same and boring as game drags on (and I was probably obsessed with exploring clearing all sectors because at the time I had same obsession in Fallout 1 and 2 and both BG games). But until that moment, JA:BiS was fun and felt very similar to JA2.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I do enjoy how they've made the strategic view worse in every conceivable way compared to a game from 1999.

 

[Zoo]

Still on the fence for this. On one side it will probably be a decent game overall, but each time I hear about enemies tanking headshots really puts me off.

It's not like enemies in JA2 couldn't tank headshots as well. Even in vanilla elite enemies with spectra helmets could withstand a headshot from an assault rifle.

But could they wearing nothing but bandana?

It's hard to say which enemy has or hasn't helmet in vanilla JA2, but one headshot very rarely eniough to finish off an eneny. In fact, JA2s mercs and enemies are very sturdy, and it is particularly ridiculous when a dynamite exploding in the hands of a merc damages merely 10% HP (of course, Compound 18/royal jelly and spectra armor are great).

JA2 is excellent, but it isn't a perfect simulation.

 

[Stavrophore]

Still on the fence for this. On one side it will probably be a decent game overall, but each time I hear about enemies tanking headshots really puts me off.

It's not like enemies in JA2 couldn't tank headshots as well. Even in vanilla elite enemies with spectra helmets could withstand a headshot from an assault rifle.

But could they wearing nothing but bandana?

It's hard to say which enemy has or hasn't helmet in vanilla JA2, but one headshot very rarely eniough to finish off an eneny. In fact, JA2s mercs and enemies are very sturdy, and it is particularly ridiculous when a dynamite exploding in the hands of a merc damages merely 10% HP (of course, Compound 18/royal jelly and spectra armor are great).

JA2 is excellent, but it isn't a perfect simulation.

Not talking about imps or mercs but your typical yellow admin militia used by deidranna.

 

[Tyranicon]

The technology isn't there yet to fully surpass a game made 20+ years ago.

 

[Alienman]

Combat is Nu-Xcom

That is not correct. Xcom had very abstract boardgamey shooting, this doesn't. It's not perfect, but it is simulating the ballistics. If calling this Xcom, you might as well call Phoenix Point Xcom.

It is really not simulating anything. It is straight hit chance roll and if you miss that roll you miss character completely and at best the bullet can hit something behind although that happens rarely. Phoenix Point is actually simulating it.

Eh, that sounds exactly like this system. It's not like Phoenix Point is something beyond "chance roll". Bullets come out of the gun and will hit random stuff if you miss. It's very much like Silent Storm in that aspect.

 

[gogis]

I don't buy your silly hypothesis that game doesn't simulate bullet physics and use nuxcom model of rolling a dice. You have on-the-path hits all the time (no, I am not talking shotgun/grenades), you have visual red overlay notification when you have chance to hit your buddy, you even have fucking "you will lose reputation killing that useless peasant 10 meters behind that brute you trying to burst with your mighty FN FAL" modifier and icon in your targeting preview. Have you actually played fucking game or just theorizing?

Game have ton of problems but that's not one (stupid nuxcom pod mechanics, RTS components, etc etc)

And don't start with "but they released mod showing exact percentages!" crap. First, it's super easy to calculate by many ways by functions which is a core in any 3d engine and second - it's could be as precise as caclulations in openxcom where your snipers have 300% to hit to be really 30% because of all stupid twigs on the way

 

[Alienman]

I don't get the graphcis complaint. Looks good for the type of game it is, and I have no problem with designs.

Don't get it either. I'm glad it looks the way it looks, because everything else is getting the Fortnite treatment, or is weirdly unpleasantly designed. This looks realistic and you can easily tell what is what.

 

[Cross]

The freemove doesn't always activate, sometimes you can "surprise" an enemy, which starts combat but doesn't alert the whole enemy force and gives your squad a turn. If you silently kill the surprised enemies within that turn, you return to exploration mode.

Problem is I don't know what causes "surprised". I think it's just if you make a silent attack at someone which misses or isn't fatal, and nobody else sees/hears it.

I don't know anything about modding, but if it doesn't always activate, it's not hardcoded, so it might be relatively simple to mod out the freemove/pod mechanic entirely.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I don't buy your silly hypothesis that game doesn't simulate bullet physics and use nuxcom model of rolling a dice. You have on-the-path hits all the time (no, I am not talking shotgun/grenades), you have visual red overlay notification when you have chance to hit your buddy, you even have fucking "you will lose reputation killing that useless peasant 10 meters behind that brute you trying to burst with your mighty FN FAL" modifier and icon in your targeting preview. Have you actually played fucking game or just theorizing?

Game have ton of problems but that's not one (stupid nuxcom pod mechanics, RTS components, etc etc)

And don't start with "but they released mod showing exact percentages!" crap. First, it's super easy to calculate by many ways by functions which is a core in any 3d engine and second - it's could be as precise as caclulations in openxcom where your snipers have 300% to hit to be really 30% because of all stupid twigs on the way

The amount of times an enemy has stepped into my overwatch and my dudes let loose a hail of bullets directly into the ground 10cm in front of them is proof enough that ballistics simulation is in.

That's another callback to Silent Storm, btw

 

[DJOGamer PT]

In fact, a lot of the game's weaknesses are highly reminiscent of vanilla JA2, which since I replayed it not that long ago, is somewhat fresh in my mind.

Bad UI, fiddly controls, no tactical map pause... the list is pretty long.

But JA2 was a product of its time, limited by the technology of its day. I don't know what JA3's excuse is.

Probably being too faithful to the old games, just to appeal to gronards and oldfags...

 

[Hobo Elf]

Yea JA3 definitely simulates bullets. This is one thing that is not a problem with the game.

Anyway, I've finally figured out how stealth kills with melee works. It's a bit clunky. You have to mark the enemy by targeting them, then you just walk up to them (in stealth) and your guy will initiate the stealth take down automatically when they are in range. Overall I think it's still kind of challenging to use in many situations. Too often enemies are clumped together that you can take one down but then you'll be in combat. It's worth it if the guy is completely isolated, but in other cases using a rifle with a silencer is way better. I've cleared maps entirely with a single guy using this method. Sometimes without being in combat, sometimes while in combat without the enemy spotting my sniper as he kept taking them down one turn after another. Pretty powerful stuff.

 

[Abu Antar]

One thing I would have liked is to initiate turn-based mode at will.

 

[geno]

but in other cases using a rifle with a silencer is way better. I've cleared maps entirely with a single guy using this method.

Whitout savescumming?

 

[ArchAngel]

Combat is Nu-Xcom

That is not correct. Xcom had very abstract boardgamey shooting, this doesn't. It's not perfect, but it is simulating the ballistics. If calling this Xcom, you might as well call Phoenix Point Xcom.

It is really not simulating anything. It is straight hit chance roll and if you miss that roll you miss character completely and at best the bullet can hit something behind although that happens rarely. Phoenix Point is actually simulating it.

Eh, that sounds exactly like this system. It's not like Phoenix Point is something beyond "chance roll". Bullets come out of the gun and will hit random stuff if you miss. It's very much like Silent Storm in that aspect.

Sounds but it is not. In JA3 cover gives straight penalty to attack chance, so does darkness, being prone and many other things like choosing body parts like heads. Game rolls the check and if you miss you miss completely. This is exactly same like in nuXcom. Then in nuXcom they calculate misses that can hit random objects and destroy them. They can never hit another target. JA3 lets you hit other targets in addition to objects.
Phoenix Point gives every weapon a certain circle of possible projectile trajectory. Then it randomly fires projectile inside this circle and lets projectile simulation do the rest. Old UFO did the same. This in effect lets you rarely miss shots from close range. Also in PP you can put enemy head at middle of your circle but still hit torso or hands.
In JA3 if you are close and it is 60% hit chance, it will always be 60% hit chance no matter what you do. That is same shit as nuXcom.

I don't buy your silly hypothesis that game doesn't simulate bullet physics and use nuxcom model of rolling a dice. You have on-the-path hits all the time (no, I am not talking shotgun/grenades), you have visual red overlay notification when you have chance to hit your buddy, you even have fucking "you will lose reputation killing that useless peasant 10 meters behind that brute you trying to burst with your mighty FN FAL" modifier and icon in your targeting preview. Have you actually played fucking game or just theorizing?

Game have ton of problems but that's not one (stupid nuxcom pod mechanics, RTS components, etc etc)

And don't start with "but they released mod showing exact percentages!" crap. First, it's super easy to calculate by many ways by functions which is a core in any 3d engine and second - it's could be as precise as caclulations in openxcom where your snipers have 300% to hit to be really 30% because of all stupid twigs on the way

Activate official mod that shows you numbers and you will see yourself. I do not care what you think, this is how it works. Mod breaks down all bonuses and penalties into exact numbers. All the shit is revealed.

 

[gogis]

Combat is Nu-Xcom

That is not correct. Xcom had very abstract boardgamey shooting, this doesn't. It's not perfect, but it is simulating the ballistics. If calling this Xcom, you might as well call Phoenix Point Xcom.

It is really not simulating anything. It is straight hit chance roll and if you miss that roll you miss character completely and at best the bullet can hit something behind although that happens rarely. Phoenix Point is actually simulating it.

Eh, that sounds exactly like this system. It's not like Phoenix Point is something beyond "chance roll". Bullets come out of the gun and will hit random stuff if you miss. It's very much like Silent Storm in that aspect.

Sounds but it is not. In JA3 cover gives straight penalty to attack chance, so does darkness, being prone and many other things like choosing body parts like heads. Game rolls the check and if you miss you miss completely. This is exactly same like in nuXcom. Then in nuXcom they calculate misses that can hit random objects and destroy them. They can never hit another target. JA3 lets you hit other targets in addition to objects.
Phoenix Point gives every weapon a certain circle of possible projectile trajectory. Then it randomly fires projectile inside this circle and lets projectile simulation do the rest. Old UFO did the same. This in effect lets you rarely miss shots from close range. Also in PP you can put enemy head at middle of your circle but still hit torso or hands.
In JA3 if you are close and it is 60% hit chance, it will always be 60% hit chance no matter what you do. That is same shit as nuXcom.

I don't buy your silly hypothesis that game doesn't simulate bullet physics and use nuxcom model of rolling a dice. You have on-the-path hits all the time (no, I am not talking shotgun/grenades), you have visual red overlay notification when you have chance to hit your buddy, you even have fucking "you will lose reputation killing that useless peasant 10 meters behind that brute you trying to burst with your mighty FN FAL" modifier and icon in your targeting preview. Have you actually played fucking game or just theorizing?

Game have ton of problems but that's not one (stupid nuxcom pod mechanics, RTS components, etc etc)

And don't start with "but they released mod showing exact percentages!" crap. First, it's super easy to calculate by many ways by functions which is a core in any 3d engine and second - it's could be as precise as caclulations in openxcom where your snipers have 300% to hit to be really 30% because of all stupid twigs on the way

Activate official mod that shows you numbers and you will see yourself. I do not care what you think, this is how it works. Mod breaks down all bonuses and penalties into exact numbers. All the shit is revealed.

You obviosly have not played game (enough) and you also obviously didn't even read my post (I literally mention devs mod it in my post and why it doesn't mean shit). I literally had occassions when I had to reposition my sniper because he kept dudding his perfect shots to open enemies hitting rail on the roof close to him, exaclty like you miss perfect 666% sniper shots to twigs and branches in openxcom. Keep coping

 

[m_s0]

It blows my mind that of all the things they could have stolen from nuxcom, they took the free enemy movement when encountered. Was there ANYONE who thought that was a good feature?

nuXcom would be brain dead without the pod scatter mechanics since targets standing in the open suffer from HIGH bonus hit and crit chance against them. Taking all the perks, gear and stat increases into account, that means from early mid-game on most targets caught standing in the open get instagibbed.

Without pod scatter you'd run up to a group and either wipe it in one salvo or cripple it into impotence and mop up the next turn. Rinse and repeat for the majority of the 50-100 hour campaign. Not sure why people imagine that'd be a fun game to play.

The thing is, you can also exploit that quite a bit by triggering the pods to force everything to go to where you want it to be. I do wonder whether that mechanic was a band-aid to fix some other unexpected design flaw, or whether they explicitly designed the encounters with it in mind. I could see it both ways. I can live with it in XCOM, but it never felt especially good. Should have no place in Jagged Alliance.

 

[cvv]

It blows my mind that of all the things they could have stolen from nuxcom, they took the free enemy movement when encountered. Was there ANYONE who thought that was a good feature?

nuXcom would be brain dead without the pod scatter mechanics since targets standing in the open suffer from HIGH bonus hit and crit chance against them. Taking all the perks, gear and stat increases into account, that means from early mid-game on most targets caught standing in the open get instagibbed.

Without pod scatter you'd run up to a group and either wipe it in one salvo or cripple it into impotence and mop up the next turn. Rinse and repeat for the majority of the 50-100 hour campaign. Not sure why people imagine that'd be a fun game to play.

The thing is, you can also exploit that quite a bit by triggering the pods to force everything to go to where you want it to be. I do wonder whether that mechanic was a band-aid to fix some other unexpected design flaw, or whether they explicitly designed the encounters with it in mind. I could see it both ways. I can live with it in XCOM, but it never felt especially good. Should have no place in Jagged Alliance.

I guess it's mostly due to how cover works in XCOM vs. JA.

In XCOM it's more or less binary - you're in cover, you're good XXX you're not in cover, you're fucked. Meaning you can't really jive without pod scatter.

Not sure how cover works in JA3, not played yet, but IIRC in JA2 it's much more granular bc distance is more impactful and there are body stances too.

 

[Hobo Elf]

but in other cases using a rifle with a silencer is way better. I've cleared maps entirely with a single guy using this method.

Whitout savescumming?

I savescummed the shit out of the game at first as I was trying to figure out the kinks of the mechanics. I'd just run around a camp initiating stealth kills just to see how things played out. Now that I've gotten a feel for it I'm much more comfortable with just going with the flow. Things to be aware of: stealth killing is not a 100% guarantee. I'm taking all those perks on level ups that increase this chance. I also have the perk that gives you an additional 5% crit chance per aim level. My sniper is using a Dragunov which has a base 10% crit chance. Sometimes my guy won't succeed at the stealth attack but they have a high crit chance and able to crit hit the enemy to death anyway, which is just as good. Hitting enemies in the melon seems pretty reliable if you are Hidden. Protip: if enemies don't see your character even during combat, you can hide again. Being spotted doesn't mean it's game over.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Hopefully one of the first mods is visible clothing on mercs.

Sorry the first mods are comically large guns and visible chance to hit.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1084160/workshop/

One of the messages in the giant gun mod....

Don't subscribe to this, it will be impossible to remove. I tried:
* Disabling the mod in game.
* Unsubscribing from the mod.
* Verifying game files through Steam.
* Completely uninstalling and re-downloading the game.
I still got the big guns

 

[Space Satan]

So far it is more entertaining than anything that came in tactical gaming so far, since Xcom2 and surely far far better than any trash that vandalized "Jagged Alliance" franchize.

 

[Jonathan "Zee Nekomimi]

One of the messages in the giant gun mod....

Don't subscribe to this, it will be impossible to remove. I tried:
* Disabling the mod in game.
* Unsubscribing from the mod.
* Verifying game files through Steam.
* Completely uninstalling and re-downloading the game.
I still got the big guns

need to use the dev mode/cheats one to fix it.