Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

[Fargus]

Game really features 7 hours of soundtrack? The actual fuck?

Btw how people make mods for this shit, are there tools or whatever?

 

[Stavrophore]

I've already uninstalled, will wait a year and maybe something better will come out of this.

 

[Raghar]

It blows my mind that of all the things they could have stolen from nuxcom, they took the free enemy movement when encountered. Was there ANYONE who thought that was a good feature?

nuXcom would be brain dead without the pod scatter mechanics since targets standing in the open suffer from HIGH bonus hit and crit chance against them. Taking all the perks, gear and stat increases into account, that means from early mid-game on most targets caught standing in the open get instagibbed.

Without pod scatter you'd run up to a group and either wipe it in one salvo or cripple it into impotence and mop up the next turn. Rinse and repeat for the majority of the 50-100 hour campaign. Not sure why people imagine that'd be a fun game to play.

Not sure you can easily remove the severe penalties for standing in the open in a cover-based combat either. It'd just devaluate the importance of cover.

It's been 15 years since I played JA2, how did SirTech solve this problem anyone?

By not using pod system.

 

[Stavrophore]

Simulation is hard and taxing on company finance because it has to be organically balanced through gameplay flow. For that you need a lot of beta testers who aren't a money starving dimwit teenagers who only do beta testing because need bucks and don't know how to tie their shoelaces. You would need a mature person who likes tactical games and have more than two braincells, these kind of people are not really interested doing the rigorous beta testing as they already have nice paying job most likely. So a company would either do a semi open beta, where they invite these people like ive explained above to do some beta testing for 2h per day or on weekends, but the problem of such beta testing it's rarely rigorous and the feedback is poorer since its not done inhouse[devs know best how the game should work and have their own vision]. The only solution would be a sizeable game dev company of nerds who actually play the game they make religiously after work and balance it accordingly. We all know we no longer live in a world where a bunch of sweaty 23-25 year old geniuses with acne band together to crunch for 12-16 hour per day to make their beloved game, while they actually play and enjoy their product carefully honing it to suit THEIR preferences instead of publisher.

 

[udm]

It blows my mind that of all the things they could have stolen from nuxcom, they took the free enemy movement when encountered. Was there ANYONE who thought that was a good feature?

nuXcom would be brain dead without the pod scatter mechanics since targets standing in the open suffer from HIGH bonus hit and crit chance against them. Taking all the perks, gear and stat increases into account, that means from early mid-game on most targets caught standing in the open get instagibbed.

Without pod scatter you'd run up to a group and either wipe it in one salvo or cripple it into impotence and mop up the next turn. Rinse and repeat for the majority of the 50-100 hour campaign. Not sure why people imagine that'd be a fun game to play.

Not sure you can easily remove the severe penalties for standing in the open in a cover-based combat either. It'd just devaluate the importance of cover.

It's been 15 years since I played JA2, how did SirTech solve this problem anyone?

Ok I might be wrong. I'm just going off my memory and game knowledge since it's been a couple of years since my last JA2 run and I'm not a modder. When you spot someone, you go into TB mode and you act on your turn unless the enemy is able to interrupt you. This can also work in favour of the enemy if they spot you first (and if I'm not mistaken are of higher level/agility).

 

[Abu Antar]

I'm having fun. Is it perfect? Far from it. The free move system is bad, but I also knew it was there before buying.
I hope it gets modded out because it removes risk and reward. If I as a player plan for a nice tactical setup, I should be rewarded. Likewise, if I as a player mess up my tactical setup, I should be punished. I'm very early in the game, but in general, I think it's a good game, but not on the level of previous numbered JAs, but we already knew chances of that happening were slim. AI could also use some improvements. Enemies have a tendency to rush a bit too much.

There are still mercs that don't like each other. One merc gets bullied by another merc, so to join, they wanted more money. I like the character creation for your merc. Moment to moment gameplay is decent. Inventory management is acceptable. I don't get the graphcis complaint. Looks good for the type of game it is, and I have no problem with designs. It's disappointing that you don't see equipped armor, but I also knew about this before buying the game. Can mods fix it? It would be nice.

In short, not in the league of JA 1/2, still a solid TBT game.

 

[ArchAngel]

JA: BiA is better than this game. Once you get over it not being TB it has other JA2 goodies (like no pod system, big maps, proper shooting systems and inventory and others).

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

It blows my mind that of all the things they could have stolen from nuxcom, they took the free enemy movement when encountered. Was there ANYONE who thought that was a good feature?

Is water wet? Dex itself is full of people in love with nuxcom and its "design" (ditto for nuciv), let alone the public at large.

 

[ropetight]

Game really features 7 hours of soundtrack? The actual fuck?

Tropico 6 had 50+ songs on soundtrack, so that is no surprise.

 

[Jonathan "Zee Nekomimi]

Not loli friendly lol.

 

[Darth Roxor]

It blows my mind that of all the things they could have stolen from nuxcom, they took the free enemy movement when encountered. Was there ANYONE who thought that was a good feature?

Is water wet? Dex itself is full of people in love with nuxcom and its "design" (ditto for nuciv), let alone the public at large.

Be that as it may, I don't think I've ever seen anyone utter a word of praise for that one specific thing in question.

 

[Strange Fellow]

You can see it right here in this very thread. You need the free movement because otherwise the game would be unplayably unfair in the player's favour (never mind that this wasn't the case prior to nuXCOM). I'm sure it must seem that way to people who have never played anything besides that game because its "systems" are a house of cards that will fall apart if you look at it funny, but for real games I absolutely cannot relate to this supposed unfairness.

 

[Beowulf]

JA: BiA is better than this game. Once you get over it not being TB it has other JA2 goodies (like no pod system, big maps, proper shooting systems and inventory and others).

I tried playing JA: BiA and Crossfire, but I never managed to finish my playthroughs. There's something missing in those titles that makes them feel soulless.

Anyway, back to JA3 - I finally got a grasp of how to use Prepared Takedown to perform stealth melee kills. I've also went further into mainland and I can see now that there are big custom maps for important sectors, and a lot of small and boring filler maps.
I like it more than I thought I would - it is a genuinely good game. JA2 it is not and lets be honest - 1.13 is THE golden standard that we compare other tactical games to and there is nothing that can match it.

 

[ArchAngel]

JA: BiA is better than this game. Once you get over it not being TB it has other JA2 goodies (like no pod system, big maps, proper shooting systems and inventory and others).

I tried playing JA: BiA and Crossfire, but I never managed to finish my playthroughs. There's something missing in those titles that makes them feel soulless.

Anyway, back to JA3 - I finally got a grasp of how to use Prepared Takedown to perform stealth melee kills. I've also went further into mainland and I can see now that there are big custom maps for important sectors, and a lot of small and boring filler maps.
I like it more than I thought I would - it is a genuinely good game. JA2 it is not and lets be honest - 1.13 is THE golden standard that we compare other tactical games to and there is nothing that can match it.

Same for me but I have also never finished JA2 because after a while gameplay become same and boring as game drags on (and I was probably obsessed with exploring clearing all sectors because at the time I had same obsession in Fallout 1 and 2 and both BG games). But until that moment, JA:BiS was fun and felt very similar to JA2.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I do enjoy how they've made the strategic view worse in every conceivable way compared to a game from 1999.

 

[Zoo]

Still on the fence for this. On one side it will probably be a decent game overall, but each time I hear about enemies tanking headshots really puts me off.

It's not like enemies in JA2 couldn't tank headshots as well. Even in vanilla elite enemies with spectra helmets could withstand a headshot from an assault rifle.

But could they wearing nothing but bandana?

It's hard to say which enemy has or hasn't helmet in vanilla JA2, but one headshot very rarely eniough to finish off an eneny. In fact, JA2s mercs and enemies are very sturdy, and it is particularly ridiculous when a dynamite exploding in the hands of a merc damages merely 10% HP (of course, Compound 18/royal jelly and spectra armor are great).

JA2 is excellent, but it isn't a perfect simulation.

 

[Stavrophore]

Still on the fence for this. On one side it will probably be a decent game overall, but each time I hear about enemies tanking headshots really puts me off.

It's not like enemies in JA2 couldn't tank headshots as well. Even in vanilla elite enemies with spectra helmets could withstand a headshot from an assault rifle.

But could they wearing nothing but bandana?

It's hard to say which enemy has or hasn't helmet in vanilla JA2, but one headshot very rarely eniough to finish off an eneny. In fact, JA2s mercs and enemies are very sturdy, and it is particularly ridiculous when a dynamite exploding in the hands of a merc damages merely 10% HP (of course, Compound 18/royal jelly and spectra armor are great).

JA2 is excellent, but it isn't a perfect simulation.

Not talking about imps or mercs but your typical yellow admin militia used by deidranna.

 

[Tyranicon]

The technology isn't there yet to fully surpass a game made 20+ years ago.

 

[Alienman]

Combat is Nu-Xcom

That is not correct. Xcom had very abstract boardgamey shooting, this doesn't. It's not perfect, but it is simulating the ballistics. If calling this Xcom, you might as well call Phoenix Point Xcom.

It is really not simulating anything. It is straight hit chance roll and if you miss that roll you miss character completely and at best the bullet can hit something behind although that happens rarely. Phoenix Point is actually simulating it.

Eh, that sounds exactly like this system. It's not like Phoenix Point is something beyond "chance roll". Bullets come out of the gun and will hit random stuff if you miss. It's very much like Silent Storm in that aspect.

 

[gogis]

I don't buy your silly hypothesis that game doesn't simulate bullet physics and use nuxcom model of rolling a dice. You have on-the-path hits all the time (no, I am not talking shotgun/grenades), you have visual red overlay notification when you have chance to hit your buddy, you even have fucking "you will lose reputation killing that useless peasant 10 meters behind that brute you trying to burst with your mighty FN FAL" modifier and icon in your targeting preview. Have you actually played fucking game or just theorizing?

Game have ton of problems but that's not one (stupid nuxcom pod mechanics, RTS components, etc etc)

And don't start with "but they released mod showing exact percentages!" crap. First, it's super easy to calculate by many ways by functions which is a core in any 3d engine and second - it's could be as precise as caclulations in openxcom where your snipers have 300% to hit to be really 30% because of all stupid twigs on the way

 

[Alienman]

I don't get the graphcis complaint. Looks good for the type of game it is, and I have no problem with designs.

Don't get it either. I'm glad it looks the way it looks, because everything else is getting the Fortnite treatment, or is weirdly unpleasantly designed. This looks realistic and you can easily tell what is what.

 

[Cross]

The freemove doesn't always activate, sometimes you can "surprise" an enemy, which starts combat but doesn't alert the whole enemy force and gives your squad a turn. If you silently kill the surprised enemies within that turn, you return to exploration mode.

Problem is I don't know what causes "surprised". I think it's just if you make a silent attack at someone which misses or isn't fatal, and nobody else sees/hears it.

I don't know anything about modding, but if it doesn't always activate, it's not hardcoded, so it might be relatively simple to mod out the freemove/pod mechanic entirely.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I don't buy your silly hypothesis that game doesn't simulate bullet physics and use nuxcom model of rolling a dice. You have on-the-path hits all the time (no, I am not talking shotgun/grenades), you have visual red overlay notification when you have chance to hit your buddy, you even have fucking "you will lose reputation killing that useless peasant 10 meters behind that brute you trying to burst with your mighty FN FAL" modifier and icon in your targeting preview. Have you actually played fucking game or just theorizing?

Game have ton of problems but that's not one (stupid nuxcom pod mechanics, RTS components, etc etc)

And don't start with "but they released mod showing exact percentages!" crap. First, it's super easy to calculate by many ways by functions which is a core in any 3d engine and second - it's could be as precise as caclulations in openxcom where your snipers have 300% to hit to be really 30% because of all stupid twigs on the way

The amount of times an enemy has stepped into my overwatch and my dudes let loose a hail of bullets directly into the ground 10cm in front of them is proof enough that ballistics simulation is in.

That's another callback to Silent Storm, btw

 

[DJOGamer PT]

In fact, a lot of the game's weaknesses are highly reminiscent of vanilla JA2, which since I replayed it not that long ago, is somewhat fresh in my mind.

Bad UI, fiddly controls, no tactical map pause... the list is pretty long.

But JA2 was a product of its time, limited by the technology of its day. I don't know what JA3's excuse is.

Probably being too faithful to the old games, just to appeal to gronards and oldfags...

 

[Hobo Elf]

Yea JA3 definitely simulates bullets. This is one thing that is not a problem with the game.

Anyway, I've finally figured out how stealth kills with melee works. It's a bit clunky. You have to mark the enemy by targeting them, then you just walk up to them (in stealth) and your guy will initiate the stealth take down automatically when they are in range. Overall I think it's still kind of challenging to use in many situations. Too often enemies are clumped together that you can take one down but then you'll be in combat. It's worth it if the guy is completely isolated, but in other cases using a rifle with a silencer is way better. I've cleared maps entirely with a single guy using this method. Sometimes without being in combat, sometimes while in combat without the enemy spotting my sniper as he kept taking them down one turn after another. Pretty powerful stuff.