KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[evdk]

Uh-huh.

Besides, this Duncan
Hath borne his faculties so meek, hath been
So clear in his great office, that his virtues
Will plead like angels, trumpet-tongued, against
The deep damnation of his taking-off.

One of the best parts of one of the best plays. Easy to understand eh?

Err, yes? I have seen several Shakespeare's plays in English and had no problem comprehending them. Admittedly, subtitles help.

 

[Modron]

Well that's exactly the problem - you get it after rereading the passage, maybe think about it a while. Maybe you'll piece it together that "borne his faculties" is probably "execute his powers" and "clear in his great office" is probably "honest" and "deep damnation" is something like "big scandal". But meanwhile two more passages have flown past you.

When I'm watching a Shakespeare play I constantly have to pause and reread the subtitles or go back and rewatch the scene. Without that I get the main points but 30% percent of the beauty and the meaning is utterly lost on me. My point is - it's not utter gibberish but easy to understand? Yeah, no.

(As for the examples of the fucked up words, I found a few: his "character" means "write" and his "look" is "to ensure").

I thought "so clear in his great office" was a just a tongue in cheek way of saying the guy was an idiot (great office probably being the brain) which would make sense of the following lines saying that he would not advance himself in any capacity by his virtues.

 

[evdk]

Well that's exactly the problem - you get it after rereading the passage, maybe think about it a while. Maybe you'll piece it together that "borne his faculties" is probably "execute his powers" and "clear in his great office" is probably "honest" and "deep damnation" is something like "big scandal". But meanwhile two more passages have flown past you.

When I'm watching a Shakespeare play I constantly have to pause and reread the subtitles or go back and rewatch the scene. Without that I get the main points but 30% percent of the beauty and the meaning is utterly lost on me. My point is - it's not utter gibberish but easy to understand? Yeah, no.

(As for the examples of the fucked up words, I found a few: his "character" means "write" and his "look" is "to ensure").

I thought "so clear in his great office" was a just a tongue in cheek way of saying the guy was an idiot (great office probably being the brain) which would make sense of the following lines saying that he would not advance himself in any capacity by his virtues.

People are praising Duncan for being a virtuous king and that said virtues make his murder all the more damning. This is Macbeth, bro - everyone apart from the title character, his wife and the witches are saints.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Hath borne his faculties so meek = he has behaved so humbly. Faculties = actions, comportment.
So clear in his great office = So honest in his ruling. Great office = kingship. Clear = clean.

Well that's exactly the problem - you get it after rereading the passage, maybe think about it a while. Maybe you'll piece it together that "borne his faculties" is probably "execute his powers" and "clear in his great office" is probably "honest" and "deep damnation" is something like "big scandal". But meanwhile two more passages have flown past you.

When I'm watching a Shakespeare play I constantly have to pause and reread the subtitles or go back and rewatch the scene. Without that I get the main points but 30% percent of the beauty and the meaning is utterly lost on me. My point is - it's not utter gibberish but easy to understand? Yeah, no.

(As for the examples of the fucked up words, I found a few: his "character" means "write" and his "look" is "to ensure").

I thought "so clear in his great office" was a just a tongue in cheek way of saying the guy was an idiot (great office probably being the brain) which would make sense of the following lines saying that he would not advance himself in any capacity by his virtues.

Which following lines?

 

[muds_animal_friend]

I've always thought English speakers are in disadvantage here since AFAIK the establishment is resistant to "translating" Shakespeare into modern English so students are forced to love something they barely understand.

Tudor English is modern English. Resisting 'translation' is simply opposing mutilation of the text. If native speakers have significant difficultly with Shakespeare's work it's because their vocabulary and ability to parse a sentence is poor, and therefore they're exactly the sort of people who would most benefit from an unabridged study of his work in the first place. The illiterate little fuckers.

 

[cvv]

I've always thought English speakers are in disadvantage here since AFAIK the establishment is resistant to "translating" Shakespeare into modern English so students are forced to love something they barely understand.

Tudor English is modern English. Resisting 'translation' is simply opposing mutilation of the text.

Well maybe. One day though Tudor English will be equally inscrutable as the language of Alfred the Great and the "mutilation" will happen.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Don't worry, the "mutilation" in question will be in Arabic and at that point it won't matter anymore lel.

 

[Darkzone]

Would you like characters to speak Middle English?

Only medieval Czech with English subtitles would be acceptable.

I proposed it, but it was rejected.

 

[Neanderthal]

I've read Chaucer and when I studied some Latin I went through the Carmina Burana as well. Yeah, some of the Canterbury Tales did make a quite a dent in my impressionable young mind; I read that in a translation which did translate all the naughty bits.

A lot of Shakespeare's dirty puns just don't work in modern pronunciation though, which was why the OP was such a revelation. "And so, from hour to hour, we ripe and ripe, And then, from hour to hour, we rot and rot; And thereby hangs a tale" doesn't sound particularly naughty now.

Spoiler

In OP hour is pronounced the same way as whore, and ripe as rape, and I'm not sure the thing that hangs means 'story,' either. It's a pun on rape, prostitutes, and syphilis basically.

Aye i've gotta admit his wordplay were fuckin brilliant, now we're stuck wi Joss Whedon saying "not" after a sentence an that passing for wit, were a revelation for me as a nipper readin Mercutio tearin Tybalt a new one verbally. Oscar Wilde o his day, cept better in my opinion.

 

[Space Insect]

I'd have to agree that Shakespeare is not terribly difficult to understand, especially in the context that it is presented in.

 

[Tigranes]

Shakespeare's not that bad, but you're kidding yourself if you think people are going to write a whole video game in authentic Shakespearean English and then try and sell copies on that premise. A much better way is to develop a game/setting-specific cant that provides enough connections to older English.

i.e. rather than characters in game telling you Duncan hath borne his faculties so meek, you might borrow turns of phrase and styles so at least people are talking about Duncan's faculties, men who were hoist with their own petard, and flesh-mongers.

 

[DDZ]

Jesus fucking Christ you guys.

 

[sullynathan]

anyways

 

[AwesomeButton]

Beta gameplay videos by youtubers are turning me towards more skepticism. I haven't managed to go through a single whole video so far, without scrolling forward. I guess it's because they don't play the missions, but is the open world supposed to be so generic/boring?

My opinion is that the M&B style of strategic map/city maps/battle maps alternation is the best formula. It solves the boring moments of travelling without fast-travel without the feeling of teleportation that fast-travel leaves you with.

 

[hivemind]

Back to skyrim with you.

 

[Excidium II]

Beta gameplay videos by youtubers are turning me towards more skepticism. I haven't managed to go through a single whole video so far, without scrolling forward. I guess it's because they don't play the missions, but is the open world supposed to be so generic/boring?

My opinion is that the M&B style of strategic map/city maps/battle maps alternation is the best formula. It solves the boring moments of travelling without fast-travel without the feeling of teleportation that fast-travel leaves you with.

Yeah there's a whole lot of nothing going on in the game, but the hobo on the beta video update did say some areas were lacking content.

 

[skacky]

Personally I take this game more like a medieval STALKER than anything else. And yes the beta is pretty barebones right now, there's next to no wildlife for example.

 

[cvv]

It's not really a beta, it's still the tech alpha with a bigger map. We still have a very limited idea how is this game gonna play, look or sound. Faces are placeholder, voices are placeholder, music and quests limited, combat and AI unpolished, other content (crafting, side activities, dynamic events) unfinished and the story still almost completely in dark.

I know Codexers, including me, always know exactly how a game will pan out just looking at jpgs from pre-alpha but this time I will reserve judgement.

 

[DeepOcean]

Jesus fucking Christ you guys.

To be or not to be a walking simulator, that is the question.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Beta gameplay videos by youtubers are turning me towards more skepticism. I haven't managed to go through a single whole video so far, without scrolling forward. I guess it's because they don't play the missions, but is the open world supposed to be so generic/boring?

Let's say this game is for people with a different mindset, people who are looking for a more realistic, down to earth game-world. People who want to go into the woods to hunt, travel around the countryside occassionally running into a bandit to fight, who with their challenging combat system can easily slaugher your character, sit down in a tavern and drink some beer, play some cards and get into a fistfight over a maid, watch a sherpherd herding sheep at sunset, follow around NPCs with their advanced scheduling AI, that sort of thing. It might not be for everyone, but surely there is enough games out there for your kind, with a red dragon up every outhouse and demi-lich under every skirt, and a ring of glorious magic on every stubby dwarven toe.

 

[Excidium II]

^
Kingdom Come roleplaying tips

 

[Aenra]

I only see two things in those vids, sorry:

- A dev team forgetting that the higher the graphic quality, the more distinct any kind of discrepancy, lack of detail or human/humanoid representation (let alone the facial part) will be; and the higher the budget to sort it
- A dev team lucky it got the funds it did, because if that thing came out of nowhere and dropped into Steam EA or similar, the vibe, visuals and 'points of interest' it features attract a kind of crowd that is very unforgiving, very fucking stupid, and very fucking not about RPGs

I am not going to connect these lines for you

 

[hivemind]

 

[AwesomeButton]

Let's say this game is for people with a different mindset, people who are looking for a more realistic, down to earth game-world. People who want to go into the woods to hunt, travel around the countryside occassionally running into a bandit to fight, who with their challenging combat system can easily slaugher your character, sit down in a tavern and drink some beer, play some cards and get into a fistfight over a maid, watch a sherpherd herding sheep at sunset, follow around NPCs with their advanced scheduling AI, that sort of thing. It might not be for everyone, but surely there is enough games out there for your kind, with a red dragon up every outhouse and demi-lich under every skirt, and a ring of glorious magic on every stubby dwarven toe.

What do you know about my mindset, or of what is a realistic, down to earth representation of Middle Ages Bohemia, or about what I am looking for?

The kind of gameplay you are describing (aka "radiant quests") grows dull in 10-20 hours for any human being of average intelligence. What's left afterwards is what I'm describing - a player rushes from one spot to the next, avoiding any filler activities or encounters on the way. What used to be playing, becomes a chore. I'm not saying the game will definitely turn out this way, but it's very easy to mess up the pacing and frustrate the player in an open world game.

Most players get bored and drop the game without completing the main quest, others force themselves to play through the main quest in the most time-economical way possible. In the end the player ruins the game for himself by blowing all his enthusiasm for the game on the minor activities that surround the main storyline.

This problem is encountered in every open world game where the gameplay is composed of "building blocks" of repetitive minigames - Mount and Blade, Witcher 3 (sure, its quests and sidequests are very unique and unlike each other, but there is still repetition, and you have the huge number of collectibles, treasure chests, monster nests, etc.), Skyrim, Sid Meier's Pirates, etc.

 

[cvv]

I am not going to connect these lines for you

That's a pity because with your syntax and grammar, you're not making much sense.

The kind of gameplay you are describing (aka "radiant quests") grows dull in 10-20 hours for any human being of average intelligence.

Stopped reading there.