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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

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It really depends on how much AC you consider "enough". IMO around 50 is fine, but there's certainly rare bosses and out of place overlevelled and statted monsters for which an AC in the 60s helps. It's up to the player whether being fine for 95% of the game and needing some extra disablers/buffs/debuffs for the rare encounter is acceptable. 50s is definitely reachable as a fighter but beyond that gets increasingly difficult.

Don't tank bosses. If you want to TSS can get a lot higher than that but just easier to use Illusion and Offense to keep the fight short. No reason to keep disablers/buffs/debuffs extra - they work the whole game to give you the freedom to develop your classes.
I agree completely, I just included that for completeness sake to stave off the inevitable autistic nitpicking.
 
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You are a retarded cunt. You basically say, "I spend everything on one guy, build my entire party around that one guy, and so it is obviously equal to your guy who can be solo and doesn't eat resources."

This is the last time I will reply to you simply because it is obvious you are too low an IQ to know what adults talk about.

I don't get why you are so autistic over starting gold. What else do you spend money on? There's fucking nothing else worth buying and gold quickly becomes virtually limitless. "b-b-b-but you spent 500 gold on an item that's unfair!"

Seems that you should just accept that you lost the argument rather than trying to dwell on trivialities. Need I remind you that this was your original, laughable claim:

A fighter won't be able to get to AC 20 right at the start (at Oleg's, for example).
 
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Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Most of the higher end AC builds I have seen relies on no armour. I suppose a TSS can get the same ridiculous AC with armour on thanks to their souped-up armour training, but that seems to be the only class that can do that in armour?

Would Sensei be a good Bard replacement? You get the two basic bard songs but that Mass Restoration with no spell component, and a bunch of Mass buffs seems to make up for it. The ones that the Sensei can't handle, your arcane caster can.
A Vivisectionist can get decent AC in armor with his Mutagen up to +6 AC and +6 Dex bonuses + Shield spell (and is not affected by armor spell failure). Of course, with a monk dip his nekkid AC will be even higher :)

I have started my first Kingmaker Vivisectionist multiclass in armor... but later restarted to go naked.
I don't know, man. Unless you really want it, +4 AC while unarmoured (and only with a +8Wis whatever) doesn't seem to be a good fit. Vivi doesn't use Wis at all.

That was the original Vivi Tripper (granted not a pure Vivi):
7LeWN8L.jpg


Not stellar AC, but largely sufficient.

Certain subraces can afford 16 starting Wis easily... and improving your Will save is never a waste.

Motherless gets the WIS boost (and the INT malus lol). Gotta do what you’ll gotta do.
 

Cael

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Hungerseed would have been better. +Str/Wis, -Cha. You don't need that much Int as a melee Vivi, though.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Hungerseed would have been better. +Str/Wis, -Cha. You don't need that much Int as a melee Vivi, though.

Not for this build :D

3 bite attacks - and each can Trip with the Cloak of the Winter Wolf. Each Trip triggers another hit from the Mastery Fauchard :D - and AoOs for everyone near, of course.

Works much better in real time, where you can manually switch targets during iterative attacks (as you can't trip someone already prone).
 
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Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
You don’t need the Bite really.

You’re there for the Infusions* and more INT is more Infusions and skills.

* - coming out of 3.5 it’s great fun to slice and dice and feel like you’re totally broken but once you figure out what else you can do - and what are the biggest threats - it’s just a nice mix of decent damage and a source of something (Infusions) you can’t get on any other class.

EDIT: Advanced Rogue Talents aren’t anything to sneeze at, so that a good reason to choose the class

But other Alchemists can and Touch AoE debuff + damage is also unique and a better fit for neutralizing the biggest threats you face. So I went Grenadier for Unfair P:K and was much happier with that.

In P:K you can get that from a companion, where you can’t in Wrath. If I wanted Infusions in Wrath and something fun I’d just go Metamorph for Stealth Leopard/Smilo/Dragon I think. The Summoner one also makes good use of the shitty 5th level spell slots.

Best place for Vivi in Wrath is probably the last eight levels on Wolj but I’ve been making him into ES20 Transmuter and that’s been really good.

Haplo could do 5,000 damage a round on a Starknife-wielding Chiurgeon so don’t let that fool you.
 
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Cael

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Hungerseed would have been better. +Str/Wis, -Cha. You don't need that much Int as a melee Vivi, though.

Not for this build :D

3 bite attacks - and each can Trip with the Cloak of the Winter Wolf. Each Trip triggers another hit from the Mastery Fauchard :D - and AoOs for everyone near, of course.

Works much better in real time, where you can manually switch targets during iterative attacks (as you can't trip someone already prone).
Hungerseed has +2 CM and +2 CMD?
 

Yosharian

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Judgement, Bane and Divine Power are very intensive abilities/spells compared to Mutagen which is just press button at start of dungeon and you're done. Judgement needs to be activated every encounter, Bane is on specific targets only and Divine Power has a very short duration.

Inquisitor is an excellent class but it is a very different style to Vivi and not necessarily strictly superior just because it can ramp up to a higher martial prowess after using 3 limited resource and limited duration spells/abilities.

That said in Wrath specifically Inq has a huge power spike from getting access to Domains which Vivi doesn't get

Another point is that Vivi gets to do some unique things like give Shield to allies which Inq can't do
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Yeah main point was people were touting Vivi as uber-busted and the main thing that keeps it in check is that on top of 3/4 BAB Mutagen is only +2 until level 12 compared to Slayer which is full BAB + Studied or Fighter with full BAB + Training + Gloves.

By the time you get to the +4 Mutagen Inq has a lot of Judgement activations (and two at a time), plus a good many Bane Weapon (which works against anything?) rounds and nearing Great Bane, plus a ton of casts for Divine Favor/Power which last ten rounds each.

By that point you can have all three up for fights that matter as I did on Jae.

Jae on another Devourer.jpg

Jae v Leafless.jpg

Jae13Inqowning Devourer.jpg

Instead of Infusions on Inq you can cast your way out of an ambush where you don't have time to buff:

Jae14Castigate, Mass.jpg

Wrath you get more rests and ways to get more activations/casts so the gap grows wider.

(you can also see Grenadier Blinding two tough targets in those shots with Bomb)
 
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Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Hungerseed would have been better. +Str/Wis, -Cha. You don't need that much Int as a melee Vivi, though.

Not for this build :D

3 bite attacks - and each can Trip with the Cloak of the Winter Wolf. Each Trip triggers another hit from the Mastery Fauchard :D - and AoOs for everyone near, of course.

Works much better in real time, where you can manually switch targets during iterative attacks (as you can't trip someone already prone).
Hungerseed has +2 CM and +2 CMD?

Yes.

But doesn't get Bite.
Which translates up to 3 extra attacks, two of them two handed, two with sneak attacks.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Bite + Cloak means extra Trips in P:K, but not in Wrath (no Cloak).

But Bite is another-5 AB so seems like win more but if MC is main source of offense then you can generate a lot if you can connect. And you're Haplo.

Extra bites rarely show up on my Combat Logs.
 

Yosharian

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Oh sure, you get a lot of those resources - but they are still limited, and require activation, which can get annoying. Mutagen's fire-and-forget nature has its appeal, that's the point I was making
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Bites and reach weapons like a fauchard don't really work together unless you want to give up reach.
I don't care about reach much in this case. And in real time you sort of slide into bite range anyway.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Oh sure, you get a lot of those resources - but they are still limited, and require activation, which can get annoying. Mutagen's fire-and-forget nature has its appeal, that's the point I was making

Absolutely. I haven't played Inq yet in Wrath (outside of Lann ZA3/SH once) since it's so easy to get Swift-clogged and Swift timing is clunky in RTwP.
 
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I did a lot of experimentation with the Vivisectionist due to the hype. Ultimately, I was not impressed. It blooms too late and requires too much resource expenditure to operate ideally. Great for huge maps with lots of mooks, but unfortunately KM is mostly about large quantities of small to medium maps with key fights. Kingmaker, attrition is thy name. Viv just didn't have it. A full fighter or slayer performed much better. Full BAB and more feats gave me access to features that mattered more and couldn't be attained elsewhere. Party casters easily replaced buffs like Displacement and Improved Invisibility. A little UMD and the abundant scrolls could do the rest. AC is very easy to come by in KM anyhow, which almost makes many of those buffs superfluous.
 

Bigg Boss

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I'm starting to burnout on this game which I except is due to how much longer combat takes in TB mode. How much longer do I have at the Armag plotline?
 

Sarathiour

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Armag plotlinei n itslef is pretty short, you next got two yeaars of kingdom managment before pitax kick in, with the infamous hellknight backer quest in the meantime.

Pitax is okay but not very difficult.

After that it's the House, and that's probably the point when you're going to quit.

Depending on your decision once you reach the end of the house, you can either finish here or go for an extra lap against LK
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Well, 2 more chapters. Technically can be 3, but the 3rd is short and optional.

Yeah, Pitax is very easy if you got a solid party.

Then the end-game kicks in.
 

Grunker

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I'm starting to burnout on this game which I except is due to how much longer combat takes in TB mode. How much longer do I have at the Armag plotline?

Yeah, you're at the start of the end where the game slowly becomes worse - primarly due to more and more lackluster difficulty and encounter design (well, except for swarms which may fuck you depending on your build). However for some Pitax can be a step up from Armag, so you might stick around for that.

House of the End of Time is where most people quit, but it's also kind of where the writing is best (still nothing great, just more interesting than previously).
 
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Yosharian

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Has anyone here played with Kingdom Management on automatic and can explain exactly how the mechanics are different? I know that you lose access to Artisans but apart from that I'm not sure
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Has anyone here played with Kingdom Management on automatic and can explain exactly how the mechanics are different? I know that you lose access to Artisans but apart from that I'm not sure

Loosing access to most of the best items in the game would be way too painful for me.
 

Yosharian

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Has anyone here played with Kingdom Management on automatic and can explain exactly how the mechanics are different? I know that you lose access to Artisans but apart from that I'm not sure

Loosing access to most of the best items in the game would be way too painful for me.
Yeah but I have an alternative to getting them that way
 
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