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The Codex’s Best Computer RPGs (pre-Diablo)

Anomander

Augur
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
126
4- Betrayal at Krondor (Dynamix Inc)
3- Black Crypt (Raven Software)
3- Dungeon Master (Psygnosis Limited)
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,422
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,762
Location
Copenhagen
The BruceVC Express:

4 points:
World of Xeen

A glorious journey of fulfilling exploration which actually manages to strike a balance between discovery, combat and systems. Unlike so many other efforts within this subgenre, WoX actually delivers on both the scope and the gameplay. There are many games who do one or two of the things WoX does better than WoX. But there are none that offer them all to such a satisfying degree across the board.

3 points:
Darklands

I admit I love it more for its ideas than for its elegance (what it promises vs how it plays). It has so many of the elements modern RPGs are only finally starting to delve into now when it comes to connecting game systems to aesthetics/roleplaying choices - which includes trying to do stuff with choose-your-own-adventure style mechanics. Basically what old RPGs did so frikkin' well was laying the foundation for combat and exploration mechanics. They rarely tried to make a good game out of their story and setting. When they did (like Betrayal of Krondor and later Planescape: Torment), the game was almost an afterthought - the setting and the story were built from words and writing (some might say I'm neglecting to mention the Ultima games here, which is probably a fair point to be honest, I just never enjoyed playing them much).

Then after older games came this Mass Effect-wave of narrative games which tried to bring the character interaction of roleplaying to the forefront. How? By just doing away with mechanics entirely and boiling everything down to story choices and writing. Hence the (to my mind false) schism between combat and storyfags which bogs down Codex cRPG debate to this day.

We're playing games - mechanics should always be the foundation for anything you're trying to do, whether that's telling a story or making a combat system. Alas, this basic tenet was largely ignored in the 00s and 10s.

And thus, like the one ring, the design document that was Darklands was lost: that RPG mechanics could be used to used to do storytelling, atmosphere, setting and character interaction as well.

Modern RPGs seem to slowly be re-realizing this (I won't mention a certain unmentionable modern game for fear of bringing down the hivemind's hammer here), but it's a tragedy that we're still so far from delivering on Darklands' promise given that it put down such a solid foundation almost 30 years ago.

That, and then the fact that it's just a darn cool setting.

1 point:
Betrayal at Krondor

Best (maybe even only good) storyfag RPG of the games we're voting on.

Dark Sun: Shattered Lands

Cool setting, good combat, fun story, decent polish.

Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos

Pure nostalgia and beautiful aesthetics. It really doesn't have much else going for it.
 
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BruceVC

Magister
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
9,931
Location
South Africa, Cape Town
Interesting to see that people dig QFG2 more than QFG1. I would rate them almost the same, great in different ways, but the mapping system of QFG2 was an unneeded headache. On the flip side, you could find x-ray specs and look at princess Zayishah get naked, the height of EGA naughtiness.
I literally played QFG4&5 in the last 2 months and 4 reminded me of why these adventure games were revolutionary when I first played them back in 1990-1993 but back then it was PQ1, KQ1 and SQ1
And Leisure Suit Larry 1 we got in 1990 and it was illegal in Apartheid SA so we were so naughty to pirate it!! Anyway the salacious sex scenes in that game really were the height of EGA naughtiness
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
8,619
I admit I love it more for its ideas than for its elegance (what it promises vs how it plays). It has so many of the elements modern RPGs are only finally starting to delve into now when it comes to implementing game systems within aestetics/roleplaying choices - which includes trying to stuff with choose-your-own-adventure style mechanics. Basically what old RPGs did so frikkin' well was laying the foundation for combat and exploration mechanics. They rarely tried to make a good game out of their story and setting. When they did (like Betrayal of Krondor and later Planescape: Torment), the game was an afterthought - the setting and the story were built from words and writing.

Then after older games came this Mass Effect-wave of narrative games which tried to bring the character interaction of roleplaying to the forefront. How? By just doing away with mechanics entirely and boiling everything down to story choices and writing.

And thus, like the one ring, the design document that was Darklands was lost: that RPG mechanics could be used to used to do storytelling, atmosphere, setting and character interaction as well.

Modern RPGs seem to slowly be re-realizing this (I won't mention a certain unmentionable modern game for fear of bringing down the hivemind's hammer here), but it's a tragedy that were we're still so far from delivering on Darklands' promise given that it put down such a solid foundation almost 30 years ago.
Darklands is the game that, more than any other in this thread save perhaps Daggerfall, most deserves a modern tech remake. It was so ahead of its time in ambition and creativity. The problem is there's nobody qualified to do a Darklands remake. If they didn't Netflix the setting, they'd sand down the rough-edged mechanics or otherwise just bungle the atmosphere.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,762
Location
Copenhagen
Darklands is the game that, more than any other in this thread save perhaps Daggerfall, most deserves a modern tech remake. It was so ahead of its time in ambition and creativity. The problem is there's nobody qualified to do a Darklands remake. If they didn't Netflix the setting, they'd sand down the rough-edged mechanics or otherwise just bungle the atmosphere.

I have faith that we'll see games like Darklands in the future. RPG developers have been circling around the core ideas of Darklands' design so much in the past 5 or 6 years it's almost inevitable at this point that they'll actually get the point and "hit the main reactor", so to speak, at some point. Maybe not ZA/UM given their overt focus on narrative, but someone else, surely.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
It's interesting that Ultima IV consistently ranks as more popular here than Ultima V (which hasn't got any points so far). Ultima IV was more groundbreaking, but V plays a whole lot better.

Ultima IV is "spot the decline enabler" choice :smug:
That would be Ultima VII, Ultima IV is the anti-combatfag choice, which is not the same.
Personally, I'd say that "spot the decline enabler" choice is MM3-5, which are the original popamole.
Now let the butthurt flow!..
 

Decado

Old time handsome face wrecker
Patron
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
2,674
Location
San Diego
Codex 2014
Interesting to see that people dig QFG2 more than QFG1. I would rate them almost the same, great in different ways, but the mapping system of QFG2 was an unneeded headache. On the flip side, you could find x-ray specs and look at princess Zayishah get naked, the height of EGA naughtiness.
I literally played QFG4&5 in the last 2 months and 4 reminded me of why these adventure games were revolutionary when I first played them back in 1990-1993 but back then it was PQ1, KQ1 and SQ1
And Leisure Suit Larry 1 we got in 1990 and it was illegal in Apartheid SA so we were so naughty to pirate it!! Anyway the salacious sex scenes in that game really were the height of EGA naughtiness

QFG4 is terrific but 5 is a tragic disaster of game.
 

Broseph

Dangerous JB
Patron
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
4,449
Location
Globohomo Gayplex
It's interesting that Ultima IV consistently ranks as more popular here than Ultima V (which hasn't got any points so far). Ultima IV was more groundbreaking, but V plays a whole lot better.

Ultima IV is "spot the decline enabler" choice :smug:
That would be Ultima VII, Ultima IV is the anti-combatfag choice, which is not the same.
Personally, I'd say that "spot the decline enabler" choice is MM3-5, which are the original popamole.
Now let the butthurt flow!..
I was going to be mad at this, then I remembered that you literally pop moles in Xeen. :lol:

EC92ACF4-7575-4413-8D43-63A6B6C778AA.png
 
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BruceVC

Magister
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
9,931
Location
South Africa, Cape Town
Interesting to see that people dig QFG2 more than QFG1. I would rate them almost the same, great in different ways, but the mapping system of QFG2 was an unneeded headache. On the flip side, you could find x-ray specs and look at princess Zayishah get naked, the height of EGA naughtiness.
I literally played QFG4&5 in the last 2 months and 4 reminded me of why these adventure games were revolutionary when I first played them back in 1990-1993 but back then it was PQ1, KQ1 and SQ1
And Leisure Suit Larry 1 we got in 1990 and it was illegal in Apartheid SA so we were so naughty to pirate it!! Anyway the salacious sex scenes in that game really were the height of EGA naughtiness

QFG4 is terrific but 5 is a tragic disaster of game.

Its true about 5, I was 25 hours in and had just returned from Hades but I was bored and I stopped. The issues I had were the combat was repetitive and boring, the main narrative didnt motivate me and the general puzzles just weren't fun like Science Island. But at least I played much of it and it doesnt my great respect for the whole series
 

*-*/\--/\~

Cipher
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
973
My points to the two Ultima Underworld games, the first proper RPGs I played and the ones that got me hooked, even though I was a 9 year old Slav kid with little idea about what I was doing.
 

Dyspaire

Cipher
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
285
Location
Relative
Fuck me I've played a lot of crpgs. I need to get out more.

I've played 185 of them, including all of them up until 1989, when I missed 2088: The Cryllan Mission.

Great, comprehensive list by the way. That's just about all of them.

Only picking one game from a series was tough. Could very easily put 3 or 4 Ultimas in my top-10 pre-Diablo crpgs. Artificial limits are good.

So,

2 pts. Ultima 6: The False Prophet (Origin)
2 pts. Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss (Blue Sky Productions)
2 pts. Wizardry 7: Crusaders of the Dark Savant (Sir-Tech)
2 pts. Betrayal at Krondor (Dynamix Inc)
2 pts. Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager (SSI)
 

Kotario

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 21, 2004
Messages
188
Location
The Old Dominion
3 Points:
Darklands
Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss

2 Points:
Betrayal at Krondor
Princess Maker 2

A difficult choice, ultimately relying on what made contributions to the genre in one way or another.
 
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