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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

Fedora Master

STOP POSTING
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Edgy
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13) Epilogues - Full epilogue cutscenes have been datamined that varied greatly depending on your choices. These were the "17K ending variations" that Larian told us about, yet they are completely absent in the final game leading only to a fade to black scene at the end of the game.

Wait, is this true? WTF?

Even the trannyfinder games had nice epilogues and Larian's ULTRA GOTY BEST RPG EVAH gives you a fade to black scene at endgame?

I imagine this post is either exagerated, poorly written or both - and that you actually get some kind of ending/epilogue for the companions and decisions you made along the way. Right?

:negative:
No, there's literally nothing. Just a short cutscene after the last battle and a short cutscene after credits
Depending on the ending you won't even get the after credits one.
I warned you.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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darkpatriot

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
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Enemies do try and push you into chasms if they can, it would be more noticeable if battles lasted longer.
They also shove their allies to wake them up form sleep for example. Makes sleep less of a free CC early game if you do it close to another enemy that takes a turn right after.

Sleep's 5e 24 hp limit makes it worthless. I selected it as one of the spells for my Warlock thinking it would be my workhorse in the early game, but I never used it once. There were barely any fights where there were enough enemies in that HP range anyway, and when I considered that my duel wielding warlock/fighter could do between 10-20 damage a turn (+ some bonus damage if I used hellish rebuke for my spells as a reaction) I found that just doing 24 damage within 1 to 2 turns was more helpful at reducing the number of enemies than 24 hp worth of sleep was.

It seems like it would be a pretty strong lvl 1 spell, where you could sleep 3 or maybe even 4 different enemies. But that was pretty much just the tutorial ship.

And playing on tactician with the enemy HP boost made it even less viable.
It's HP left, not total HP. Jesus all you phaggots are determined to keep banging your head into the same wall. You use it because it's also no save, so 100% hit chance, and even AoE if you've got several targets down low. Or don't. Just don't rag on something you haven't bothered to test.

Why Dual Wield a Warlock? Why the Fighter? Pact of the Blade already gets extra attack at lvl 5 and lets you use CHR stat on any weapon in the game. Just whale with the best available two-hander and let yourself get hit with Phys Resist to trigger Armor of Agathis. Bonus points for adding on no save Ray of Enfeeblement (preferably from someone with actual spell slots) if you're fighting a boss. Multiclassing Warlock costs you the best class feature, which is auto-upcast.

The 24 hp limit makes sleep pretty worthless, again aside from maybe lvl 1 or 2. Doesn't change much whether it is HP left or max HP. If I have an enemy down to under 20hp, I would rather just cause 20 damage and kill them so they are out of the fight permanently them than waste a turn casting sleep to temporarily remove them from the fight. Once you can regularly cause 15+ damage with an action, whether it is attacks or spells, sleep is just wasting one of your turns to waste one of the enemy turns. Which is really just a wash, and gives you no advantage.


I did fighter/warlock because I really want to just play a fighter (my first playthrough in most D&D games is usually a fighter). But due to the 4 character limit my character needs to fulfill some other roles. I pick the NPCs in my party based on what characters I want to interact with rather than their classes or utility. And that is one figher(LZ), one barbarian(Karlach), and one cleric(Shadowheart).

As a result my character needs to cover lockpicking and disarming and I also wanted to have at least some arcane spell casting. I had to restart with a new character (although when I was still early in act I when I saw the available companions it became clear I was gonna be without thief and arcane magic support) and since my highest stats were 16 Dex (for lockpicking and disarming) and 16 Cha (Since I am always the one talking), I went with Warlock as my arcane caster class to multi with. Since then I have picked up an item that gives me 18 dex. So that is definitely the stat I want to use with my weapons, not Charisma.

If I could have a proper 6 person party, there would be less need to gimp my character just to cover needed party roles. Trust me, I would much rather have a regular non-multiclassed fighter that doesn't need to pump so many points into Cha, although I was still planning on trying out a dex fighter rather than a str fighter. Although I am pretty disappointed with Fighters in D&D 5e, tbh.

I really hate the modern trend that fighters need to be dudes that do a bunch of special attacks rather than just being guys that are good at hitting things regularly to cause steady damage and absorbing damage to protect the party. I blame video games for having passed this "Everyone needs a bunch of special abilities to be fun!" idea down to tabletop.
 

whydoibother

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NWN2 OC was a trainwreck from start to finish most people were soured by it WAY before the ending.
Speaking of which, this game would have been ten times better if he and some of the old Black Isle or pre-exodus Obsidian gang had been in the writing team.
Good old Lyric "I complain about everything always" Suite.

Or maybe shit is shit and i'm just calling it like it is.
"This game would've benefited from Obsidian working on it" + "That game Obsidian made is shit" = you are retarded.
 

whydoibother

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Codex Year of the Donut
The 24 hp limit makes sleep pretty worthless, again aside from maybe lvl 1 or 2. Doesn't change much whether it is HP left or max HP. If I have an enemy down to under 20hp, I would rather just cause 20 damage and kill them so they are out of the fight permanently them than waste a turn casting sleep to temporarily remove them from the fight. Once you can regularly cause 15+ damage with an action, whether it is attacks or spells, sleep is just wasting one of your turns to waste one of the enemy turns. Which is really just a wash, and gives you no advantage.
No saving throw. No random chance. Guaranteed critical against the enemy. Sets up a sneak attack against the enemy. The damage you missed by casting it, will be made up in the next attack against it. And if you are the last person to act, the target probably skips a turn.
Its not worthless, though obviously its stronger earlier in the game.
 

Haplo

Prophet
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6,560
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Enemies do try and push you into chasms if they can, it would be more noticeable if battles lasted longer.
They also shove their allies to wake them up form sleep for example. Makes sleep less of a free CC early game if you do it close to another enemy that takes a turn right after.

Sleep's 5e 24 hp limit makes it worthless. I selected it as one of the spells for my Warlock thinking it would be my workhorse in the early game, but I never used it once. There were barely any fights where there were enough enemies in that HP range anyway, and when I considered that my duel wielding warlock/fighter could do between 10-20 damage a turn (+ some bonus damage if I used hellish rebuke for my spells as a reaction) I found that just doing 24 damage within 1 to 2 turns was more helpful at reducing the number of enemies than 24 hp worth of sleep was.

It seems like it would be a pretty strong lvl 1 spell, where you could sleep 3 or maybe even 4 different enemies. But that was pretty much just the tutorial ship.

And playing on tactician with the enemy HP boost made it even less viable.
It's HP left, not total HP. Jesus all you phaggots are determined to keep banging your head into the same wall. You use it because it's also no save, so 100% hit chance, and even AoE if you've got several targets down low. Or don't. Just don't rag on something you haven't bothered to test.

Why Dual Wield a Warlock? Why the Fighter? Pact of the Blade already gets extra attack at lvl 5 and lets you use CHR stat on any weapon in the game. Just whale with the best available two-hander and let yourself get hit with Phys Resist to trigger Armor of Agathis. Bonus points for adding on no save Ray of Enfeeblement (preferably from someone with actual spell slots) if you're fighting a boss. Multiclassing Warlock costs you the best class feature, which is auto-upcast.

The 24 hp limit makes sleep pretty worthless, again aside from maybe lvl 1 or 2. Doesn't change much whether it is HP left or max HP. If I have an enemy down to under 20hp, I would rather just cause 20 damage and kill them so they are out of the fight permanently them than waste a turn casting sleep to temporarily remove them from the fight. Once you can regularly cause 15+ damage with an action, whether it is attacks or spells, sleep is just wasting one of your turns to waste one of the enemy turns. Which is really just a wash, and gives you no advantage.


I did fighter/warlock because I really want to just play a fighter (my first playthrough in most D&D games is usually a fighter). But due to the 4 character limit my character needs to fulfill some other roles. I pick the NPCs in my party based on what characters I want to interact with rather than their classes or utility. And that is one figher(LZ), one barbarian(Karlach), and one cleric(Shadowheart).

As a result my character needs to cover lockpicking and disarming and I also wanted to have at least some arcane spell casting. I had to restart with a new character (although when I was still early in act I when I saw the available companions it became clear I was gonna be without thief and arcane magic support) and since my highest stats were 16 Dex (for lockpicking and disarming) and 16 Cha (Since I am always the one talking), I went with Warlock as my arcane caster class to multi with. Since then I have picked up an item that gives me 18 dex. So that is definitely the stat I want to use with my weapons, not Charisma.

If I could have a proper 6 person party, there would be less need to gimp my character just to cover needed party roles. Trust me, I would much rather have a regular non-multiclassed fighter that doesn't need to pump so many points into Cha, although I was still planning on trying out a dex fighter rather than a str fighter. Although I am pretty disappointed with Fighters in D&D 5e, tbh.

I really hate the modern trend that fighters need to be dudes that do a bunch of special attacks rather than just being guys that are good at hitting things regularly to cause steady damage and absorbing damage to protect the party. I blame video games for having passed this "Everyone needs a bunch of special abilities to be fun!" idea down to tabletop.
Upcast Sleep gains +12 HP per spell level. So it can be 36 at level 3, 48 at level 5 and so on...
Again, no save.

Auto-crit, auto sneak can mean a really nasty blow afterwards. Possibly with some extra effects, like triggering Great Old One's Fear on crit.
Its situational (particularly versus tough to hit enemies and or enemies with strong saving throws), but far from useless.
 

Steezus

Savant
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761
So a great first act, and good second act and a messy rushed out third act in a big city ? Sounds like larian alright.

I just reached the finale and while I'm braced for a super rushed ending, pretty much the entirety of act 3 was largely fun and unique. I don't think it's this huge drop off on in quality as people make out to be. Sure, the reactivity isn't as good and the game gets buggier (nothing gamebreaking or truly annoying tho), but it's still fine.
 

POOPERSCOOPER

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California
Screenshot_20230822-070058_Chrome.jpg
God dammit I hate this so much. I feel like I got much much dumber than before by reading this. Black, fat and queer (BFQ) should be what she stands for.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
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One of the most hilarious things about the ending is that army Thorm raised. You know, the one that is marching towards the city and filling everyone with dread?

The one that you are supposed to be rushing to find some way to stop?

It's completely missing from the ending. Just straight up not even mentioned. Now there's an army of goblins, undead and other shit in the countryside. No longer mind controlled, but still a problem.

1692719717667.png
 

Aarwolf

Learned
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Dec 15, 2020
Messages
572
So I got the game and played it. No matter the reasons, I bought it in EA couple of days before the release, to see what will change between EA and final version. I also happened to play it at the beggining of EA 3 years ago, but then I "found" the copy, so you know.

I didn't have any expectations about the game, nor good nor bad. Obviously, I heard about bear sex and made some jokes here about it, but I came to conclusion that if I want to have opinion about the game, I should play it. So I bought it (yeah Swen you got my hard earned potato money in the end, you can feast).

Anyway, to meritum: I still don't know what to do with this game. I have 170h played (of which 40 is EA) and it took me ca. two weeks to go there. I quit just after the penultimate fight in Upper City (more on this later) and didn't finish the game in result. Is the game good? Yes, very. I had rock solid fun during the first act, which is my favourite. Second act was also very good, and final showdown with Ketheric was climatic and felt good. Up to that point it was solid 8/10 game, and I was honestly surprised with the quality - map itself, levels, encounters, variety of enemies, different approaches available to the player and so on. Even writing up to this point was serviceable, and sometimes even good. As of writing - it bothers me not that much in Larian games, I know where and what I came for. Also, original BG1 and BG2 didn't have stellar writing and were uneven in quality in this.

I do like structure of the game. Act 1 is very good in this - you can go to various places and do whatever you like in whatever order you want. Of course it helped me immensely that I did know what I'm doing b/c of EA in my "proper" playthrough, but fucking around in EA blindly was still very much fun. I wanted to hate that map and compare it to D:OS1 Cyseal, but in the end I had to admit it was very good. Cramped a little, yes, but apart from that I had places packed with action and others, where I could breathe a little. I checked every nook and cranny, and felt rewarded for that (how many of you found kuo-toa village in the Underdark?). Act 1 took me 35-40 hours to complete and it was joy. Act 2 was also very decent in that - we have proper villain, who's got whole act to establish. We've seen consequences of his action, we have reasons to be here and by exploration we can learn and feel why we have to fight with this villain. It's also my main grip with third act and Gortash and Orin, but more about that later.

I liked "new" Jaheira, I liked having a base from which I can operate and explore, I liked ruins of town beside Moonrise Towers and miniboses there. I liked the ambience and complete change of mood. I also liked Moonrise Towers as a place and mini dungeon - this game has many of them, in act 1 and 2 for the most. I'm not a big fun of dungeons myself, especially big ones, but here I had a feeling that designers did great their jobs. Dungeons like Arcane Tower, Moonrise, Temple of Shar or event starting abandoned temple on the beach in act 1 are spot on in size - they ended just about the moment I was getting the feeling I might be tired of them. Only the gith creche was a little bit larger, and a little bit too large too, but I was tired not by the size or wrong design, but by constant fighting with camera (more on that later).

After the act 2 ended, I expected that two other villains would have the same treatment: lower city for Orin, and upper city for Gortash, with coresponding entourage - base, cultist, and so on. Unfortunatelly, things took south from then. Rivinton was still quite good, but I felt tired with the same refugee-saving thing by now. Meeting tieflings again (and again having to help them) really overstayed its welcome by then. Main story, serviceable at that point, also took a deep dive. I got invitation from Gortash for his coronation event, which took place in some guarding tower (WTF? why here and not in the great hall in the upper city? now I know), but still had to fight my way inside or sneak in through the prison (why? he wanted me to be there and he wanted to side with me). Now I know that it was very heavily rewritten in last weeks before the release after cutting Upper City and changing in the guardian story line, who happend now to be another rogue mindflayer (and also Balduran himself). From here everything went sideways. We got one district of the city proper with some quests, but still many things seemed barely polished and often unfinished. Many NPCs had things to say and probably quest to give, which were cut. Some related to the areas that were off-limits (Upper City) and even the Emperor himself nad companions mentioned many times content no longer in the game or changed (ie. Gale mentioned Sorcerous Soundries being in Upper City, not the Lower). That is also why I haven't stumble upon Cazador's place up to the point of looking for entrance to it on wikia, to be buffled that entrance now through the city fortification and not through, you know, proper gate like any other place and mansion in the city - it was haphazardly changed after Upper City was cut. Still, there was much to see and do, but I feel now that maybe act 3 should be second, and act 2 third, with the Netherbrain residing in Moonrise.

All this leads us to the endgame, which is of Mass Effect 3 quality. I should have know it by then, having been cut from earlier areas at the start of act 3 - troubles were in a way. All my choices from before were meaningless - it didn't matter if I chose to side with druids or goblins or if I went through the Underdark or Mountain Pass (or both). It didn't matter what I chose in gith creche and if I ever got there. The latter was to have impact though, but it was cut and in reality it never mattered if I went there or not. Hell, it even didn't matter if I chose to kill Gortash or side with him - he convenientely died anyway and the start of the endgame. And don't even start me on mindflayer nonsense - I had son of the very Gith herself of all people and now he's only able to fight the elder brain only if he's mindflayer himself? Or I have to be one, even if I never ever used any illithid power myself and for all this 170 hours avoided using them? Oh, I can also trust another mindflayer, The Emperor, whose storyline doesn't have any sense or semblance (original Balduran vanished 300 years before BG1, Moonrise Towers and elder brain beneath happened 100 years before BG3, we even read about it in journal of mason who build them - and yet he, as still an adventurer, wanted to explore them and only then became mindflayer himself, but retained his own personality - HOW???) - the same guy, who if I mistrust him, turns 180 degrees and goes to hell, to help the Netherbrain? Bonus nonsense - the game states that if you want to control Crown of Karsus, you have to be a mindflayer. Did Karsus know of it?

That it the place, where I quit, b/c I lost all interest. For roleplaying reasons, as a good person, I couldn't do anything else than turn mindflayer myself. I didn't want my companions die (Gale or Karlach), or Orpheus be a mindflayer. So for me that was the end.

This is all about story, but what about the mechanics? I don't like 5ed DnD much, I am more into ADnD 2nd edition and DnD 3,5 ed, but here it was... fine. It's leagues better than DOS mechanics, and server Larian well, giving them enough tools to have fun, but still reigning them in line if they have the urge to go too far. As I said before, I liked variety of enemies and variety of aproaches one can have in dealing with them. I liked design of most of these encounters, some of them brutal if I was surprised. Two fights in shadow cursed land come to think, which could obliterate me in one turn. What I didn't like, was the party limit and UI. I hated, really hated inventory and sorting things. I hated many little things, like bartering being the default option that I had to toggle every time, but the main offender was the camera. I loved verticality in this game, and hated it for the camera only. I lost track of keeping the right amount of times, when I had to struggle with camera showing me rooftops or even wrong floors, when I was trying to do something stealthy in goblin camp, gith creche or any other many storied building. I wanted to love these moments, but I hated them instead - only because of camera. The only other game I can reacall with that bad camera is infamous NWN2, but I won't dare to play it again to see which one is worse.

Side note about difficulty - the game is easy on normal, and quite easy on tacticians, with occasional spikes. I gimped myself never ever touching tadpole powers, but evened it out by playing with more companions mod. Resting was a non-mechanic - there was so much food, that I never used camping rations, and the value of 80 "food units" to rest was nothing to care about - at the end of act 1 I had about 2500 "food units" and could spam rest after every five minutes if I wanted to.

Oh, and the companions. I chose to leave them at the end, b/c there is not much to write about them. The only moment I felt the writing of any of them was more than good was conclusion of Astarion's story. I may not like the guy, but he was the best written and best voice acted (voice acting is mostly good, but why everyone and their dog sounds like they were from different parts of London, apart from Jaheira, who sounds like an east european). I was surprised that I quite liked Lae'zeal and I was fond of Shadowheart. I liked that her romance was very timid - she was the only one who didn't want to jump into my bedroll after 15 minutes and it took me obout 80 hours of proper playthrough to finally have sex scene with her. It felt earned by that moment.

As I said before, I liked "new" Jaheira. Minsc was also very ok - the writer caught the essence of that character and landed it spot on. I'm still not a fan of him, but I enjoyed the ride. I still don't know why Halsin (the bear guy) was with us, he doesn't have any reason to be after act 2. He and Wyll were very meh tier. As of Wyll - I think I liked the EA version of him more. He was more shady, and now he is the goodest of good - and the blandest of them.

So, I still don't know what to think about this game. There is very solid RPG beneath and I had more than 100 hours of fun with it, which is more than with most games nowadays. And yet I couldn't force myself to end it, knowing I am two fights away from the end. BG3 reminds me in it's structure and character of Dragon Age Origins and I think this is the game, what a paradox!, that BG3 is the spiritual successor of. In it's backbone BG3 is a very Bioware game, which is a good thing and a bad thing at the same time. And that's how I feel about it - it's super good and super bad at the same times, it has very high highs and very low lows. I don't think I will return to the game, maybe after inevitable definitive edition, who know. But now it's closed chapter for me - but still for most time very enjoyable one.
 

Rhobar121

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
1,280
One of the most hilarious things about the ending is that army Thorm raised. You know, the one that is marching towards the city and filling everyone with dread?

The one that you are supposed to be rushing to find some way to stop?

It's completely missing from the ending. Just straight up not even mentioned. Now there's an army of goblins, undead and other shit in the countryside. No longer mind controlled, but still a problem.

View attachment 40399
Without any control, they'd rather kill each other than do anything.
The combination of goblins, gnolls, ogres, undead and everything else is not going to end well without a strong will to force them to cooperate.
Half of them consider anything that is weaker than them to be food.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,801
One of the most hilarious things about the ending is that army Thorm raised. You know, the one that is marching towards the city and filling everyone with dread?

The one that you are supposed to be rushing to find some way to stop?

It's completely missing from the ending. Just straight up not even mentioned. Now there's an army of goblins, undead and other shit in the countryside. No longer mind controlled, but still a problem.

View attachment 40399
Without any control, they'd rather kill each other than do anything.
The combination of goblins, gnolls, ogres, undead and everything else is not going to end well without a strong will to force them to cooperate.
Half of them consider anything that is weaker than them to be food.

Yeah, but they'll be doing that basically right at the city's edge, since everybody took their sweet time to mop up Act 3. I know I spent a lot of time just randomly exploring and not caring about arbitrary time limits that aren't even enforced.

So after the ending, the player will have that mess to look forward to.
 

Herumor

Scholar
Joined
May 1, 2018
Messages
648
I still find it hilarious that Mystra thought it appropriate for Gale to blow himself up at the end of Act 2 and thus unleash thousands upon thousands of Mind Flayers upon the Sword Coast.
 

Rhobar121

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
1,280
One of the most hilarious things about the ending is that army Thorm raised. You know, the one that is marching towards the city and filling everyone with dread?

The one that you are supposed to be rushing to find some way to stop?

It's completely missing from the ending. Just straight up not even mentioned. Now there's an army of goblins, undead and other shit in the countryside. No longer mind controlled, but still a problem.

View attachment 40399
Without any control, they'd rather kill each other than do anything.
The combination of goblins, gnolls, ogres, undead and everything else is not going to end well without a strong will to force them to cooperate.
Half of them consider anything that is weaker than them to be food.

Yeah, but they'll be doing that basically right at the city's edge, since everybody took their sweet time to mop up Act 3. I know I spent a lot of time just randomly exploring and not caring about arbitrary time limits that aren't even enforced.

So after the ending, the player will have that mess to look forward to.
To be honest, at this point, it's not the player's problem anymore.
Realistically, an army of barely thinking chaotic creatures that is kept in check by mind control (at least their leaders) would disperse quite quickly, especially since as I wrote earlier, half of them would most likely devour each other.
It would probably end up in a mess for about bg for a dozen years with bands of goblins and gnolls prowling around, but the city itself would be safe.
 

Sunri

Liturgist
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Apr 16, 2020
Messages
2,902
Location
Poland
I still find it hilarious that Mystra thought it appropriate for Gale to blow himself up at the end of Act 2 and thus unleash thousands upon thousands of Mind Flayers upon the Sword Coast.
Thats just stupid writing because they dont evolve after proper ending even if you use Gale
 

Barbarian

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
8,143
If every audio and animation pertaining proper ending epilogue is actually in the game already, shouldn't we hope they will patch it in the matter of weeks? The butthurt is flowing already - though I imagine most players won't actually finish the game.

Also upper city and else that was cut, I don't know how much in the habit of actually adding things of that scope post-release Larian is.
 

Takamori

Learned
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Apr 17, 2020
Messages
905
Its fucking retarded and could be easily fixed, given the whole plot. Hey Gale I'm gonna forgive you if you work as my agent and investigate this plot and solve it.
Meanwhile I'm putting your chest bomb on hold so you can do your investigation in peace and I can look in a way to heal it, only in a really dire situation use the bomb but I'd rather you refrain from usage given its catastrophic nature and unknown after effects.

Voila fucking Gale story makes much more sense and you don't have him having a retarded crisis in case you brought him to fight Ketheric Thorm.
 

whydoibother

Arcane
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bulgaristan
Codex Year of the Donut
One of the most hilarious things about the ending is that army Thorm raised. You know, the one that is marching towards the city and filling everyone with dread?

The one that you are supposed to be rushing to find some way to stop?

It's completely missing from the ending. Just straight up not even mentioned. Now there's an army of goblins, undead and other shit in the countryside. No longer mind controlled, but still a problem.
If you use Gale's unique ability to get a GAME OVER in Act II, this is referenced. You killed the spoiler-spoiler, but you didn't address the army, which is now roaming the countryside.
 

Rhobar121

Scholar
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Sep 22, 2022
Messages
1,280
I still find it hilarious that Mystra thought it appropriate for Gale to blow himself up at the end of Act 2 and thus unleash thousands upon thousands of Mind Flayers upon the Sword Coast.
To be honest, it was Mystra, none of her versions were particularly intelligent. The whole character can be summed up as the biggest whore among the gods (and that's not even a joke).
Even Gale's story isn't as far-fetched as some people seem to think, considering what kind of person Mystra is.
This is what happens when you choose a wizard below lvl 10 (it was probably even 8) as a goddess of magic.
 

darkpatriot

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
6,286
Guaranteed critical against the enemy.
against the 20hp enemy. how do you even kill those things without crits i wonder...

This is really the crux of why I find it so useless. I don't need to waste a spell slot and a spell caster's turn temporarily removing weak enemies from the fight. And upleveling the spell makes it even worse, because while it works on slightly stronger enemies, it still won't get the most powerful enemies that cause real trouble, plus it requires using an even higher level spell slot.

Spells to incapacitate an enemy are useful against the main strong enemies, they aren't needed against the weaker minions. That is why Hold Person is an amazing OP spell while sleep is useless past level 1 or maybe level 2.
 

Takamori

Learned
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Apr 17, 2020
Messages
905
I still find it hilarious that Mystra thought it appropriate for Gale to blow himself up at the end of Act 2 and thus unleash thousands upon thousands of Mind Flayers upon the Sword Coast.
To be honest, it was Mystra, none of her versions were particularly intelligent. The whole character can be summed up as the biggest whore among the gods (and that's not even a joke).
Even Gale's story isn't as far-fetched as some people seem to think, considering what kind of person Mystra is.
This is what happens when you choose a wizard below lvl 10 (it was probably even 8) as a goddess of magic.
That's what happen when you choose women for any leadership position :argh:
 

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