Blizzard announced "Classic" World of Warcraft

[Absinthe]

You don't need to be ret paladin to OT and self-heal as a CC solution when the dungeon calls for it. You just need a spare tanking set and maybe some self-buffs that are good for it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You don't need to be ret paladin to OT and self-heal as a CC solution when the dungeon calls for it. You just need a spare tanking set and maybe some self-buffs that are good for it.

nobody wants to go through all this effort, just reroll a mage or go play a better game

 

[Kem0sabe]

Warlocks with their seduce and banish/enslave

Mages with sheep

Rogues with sap

Hunters with frost trap

Priests with mind control

All these are much much better than other dps classes, in heroics that is. Normal versions of dungeons are easy enough to do with any group comp.

 

[Absinthe]

Obviously you should play a better game. That's a given. I just listed an option that can round out a Paladin's capabilities a bit.

 

[Cromwell]

Rogues with sap

you would have to skill improved sap for that and you cant easily reapply the CC.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

heroics also made heavy use of mobs that can cleave making playing melee suck
playing melee in an MMORPG is a terrible idea about 80% of the time anyways, encounter designs inevitably always end up favoring ranged

 

[Ravielsk]

But man, Paladins suck in WoW for anything other than buffing, dispelling, and healing. They're more healer than the Priest class is.

designers hated hybrids

The weird part about that is that its almost like the devs are trying to cover it up. Instead of just straight up admitting that they did not like hybrid classes they make these bizarrely contradicting statements like:
> The Paladin was supposed to be a beginners class
< So we designed it like not other class with seal-judge system and crippled two of its three specs, also you need (absolutely) counterintuitively engineering for PVP
or
> The beta abilities( like Holy strike and crusaders strike ) were just placeholders
< So we only got around to replacing them a couple of weeks before launch with an entirely new system only to then backtrack to those "beta" designs in the subsequent expansions, also mobs still have and use those old "placeholders"

Like either they are indirectly admitting that they are shit designers and basically had half the classes run around for 3 years with unfinished specs or they just dont want to own up to their own shitty ideas. I am not shocked that there are armies of douchebags pretending that paladin blessing lasting for 5 minutes is somehow balanced or "flavorful" but when I hear these supposed industry veterans squeeze out what basically amount to "a seven year old pretending he did not eat the whole tub of ice cream while his whole face is smeared in it" it just makes me cringe(and not in a good way).

 

[Absinthe]

Paladins need Engineering for PvE also, otherwise Paladins have no practical way to pull or tag mobs from range (buying Magic Candle stacks or the dynamites that don't require engineering from AH is possible though) or Force Reactive Disk for AoEing mobs of enemies with Consecrate+Reflective+grenade/dynamite damage.

Blizz devs have always spun bullshit about intended design though.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I don't think hybrid are especially bad.

Paladins are good healers and great tanks in TBC.

Druids are good healers and great tanks in TBC.

Shamans are the most sought after class of the expansion providing a ridiculous amount of utility and buffs. They can also provide the best healing of the expansion and decent dps in either elemental or enhancement spec.

The big issues with paladins and druid has always been their dps specs. Ret, cat and boomkin are either too much of a hassle to play to get mediocre results or just outright bad.

 

[Ravielsk]

I don't think hybrid are especially bad.

... TBC.

... TBC.

I was talking more about how they were in Vanilla. TBC basically fixed hybrids by keeping them still less effective than single purpose classes but not by crippling them in all but one way.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I don't think hybrid are especially bad.

Paladins are good healers and great tanks in TBC.

Druids are good healers and great tanks in TBC.

Shamans are the most sought after class of the expansion providing a ridiculous amount of utility and buffs. They can also provide the best healing of the expansion and decent dps in either elemental or enhancement spec.

The big issues with paladins and druid has always been their dps specs. Ret, cat and boomkin are either too much of a hassle to play to get mediocre results or just outright bad.

TBC was basically the highlight of hybrids, after that everything got hit with the homogenization bat.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I was talking more about how they were in Vanilla. TBC basically fixed hybrids by keeping them still less effective than single purpose classes but not by crippling them in all but one way.

Fair enough. In vanilla hybrids were mostly second tier citizens with the exception of a few gimmicks.

Druids could heal but they were always a risk to bring because of their lack of an on demand Rez, they could also tank but feral tank gear was a minigame unto itself with non existent itemization. Dps was non existent.

Paladins could tank but were less than decent at it. They could certainly heal... But dps was absolute shit.

Shamans had some pretty nice stuff totems wise but when it came to healing, they went oom faster than any other healer, and either of their dps specs werent viable.

 

[Absinthe]

Paladins can dungeon tank in vanilla but they go OOM constantly and they can still lose aggro if someone is just blasting away. The real nuisance is the constant water breaks so mana management becomes an important part of Paladin tanking.

 

[SerratedBiz]

You're all so out of tune with the actual game. Prot palas are currently the kings of AOE tanking with the new talent tree, the addition of Avenger Shield and their taunt.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You're all so out of tune with the actual game. Prot palas are currently the kings of AOE tanking with the new talent tree, the addition of Avenger Shield and their taunt.

most of us aren't retarded enough to actually try to relive our nostalgia because we know it would just destroy the happy memories we had

 

[abija]

This might be true for pre-TBC, hell even 2.1 to 2.3 due to lack of threat reduction talents but we are now in TBC. 2.4 Paladin, which is the version Blizzard uses is very viable. They not only provide mandatory raid buffs but also can break the 'famed' 3k DPS barrier against Brutallus and were present in many world first Sunwell Plateu kills where they optimized the kills to the t. They're shit for dungeons though because they neither provide CC nor sustainable AoE.

My early heroic group was druid tank, war, ret, rogue, resto shaman and got attunements completed for people that had issues replacing the rogue. CC was barely needed when you could cleave your way through.

 

[SerratedBiz]

You're all so out of tune with the actual game. Prot palas are currently the kings of AOE tanking with the new talent tree, the addition of Avenger Shield and their taunt.

most of us aren't retarded enough to actually try to relive our nostalgia because we know it would just destroy the happy memories we had

i had to show my ignored content to get some kind of convoluted "oh yeah you're right I don't know what I'm talking about" lol

 

[J1M]

But man, Paladins suck in WoW for anything other than buffing, dispelling, and healing. They're more healer than the Priest class is.

designers hated hybrids

They are derivative of the WarCraft III hero, not the knight unit. It took a decade of player feedback to turn retribution into a rogue with bubble instead of stealth.

 

[Lyric Suite]

You're all so out of tune with the actual game. Prot palas are currently the kings of AOE tanking with the new talent tree, the addition of Avenger Shield and their taunt.

What new talent tree? I thought this was classic?

 

[Ninjerk]

You're all so out of tune with the actual game. Prot palas are currently the kings of AOE tanking with the new talent tree, the addition of Avenger Shield and their taunt.

What new talent tree? I thought this was classic?

TBC Classic launched on the 1st.

 

[Absinthe]

But man, Paladins suck in WoW for anything other than buffing, dispelling, and healing. They're more healer than the Priest class is.

designers hated hybrids

They are derivative of the WarCraft III hero, not the knight unit. It took a decade of player feedback to turn retribution into a rogue with bubble instead of stealth.

Play a Priest, Mind Control the Scarlet Monastery Paladin mobs, and you can see some of what the WoW beta Paladin class played like. It had a lot more offensive abilities. The whole Paladin class was nerfed shortly before WoW went live.

 

[Akratus II]

I'm leveling a Night Elf Druid on Shandalar. Burning Crusade is my favorite. Zangarmarsh is the best zone.

 

[Sentinel]

I'm leveling a Night Elf Druid on Shandalar. Burning Crusade is my favorite. Zangarmarsh is the best zone.

Female or Male?

 

[Akratus II]

Female or Male?

Male.

 

[Absinthe]

I'm leveling a Night Elf Druid on Shandalar. Burning Crusade is my favorite. Zangarmarsh is the best zone.

Tauren Druid >>>> Night Elf Druid

War Stomp is fucking good. It's almost like getting a second Nature's Swiftness as a racial, because the racial doesn't GCD so you can cast while your enemy is stunned.