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Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

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Dec 12, 2013
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4,312
I think KotOR 2 did a good job informing the player of the game world without resorting to amnesia, by having a multitude of descriptive dialogue choices. Even if the player doesn't pick the line that says "Atris you fucking bitch, your gloating tone reminds me of the day you exiled me from the Jedi Order", they still learn something about the world by just reading it.
KotOR 2 is the avatar of how not to do dialogue. Repeatedly it gives you choices that you're not informed enough to make, because your character knows a bunch of shit that you the player don't.
Kotor 2 is weird. I recently finished it and noticed that you have to have played this game multiple times to really *get* the game. The protagonist- Meetra if you prefer, legitimately knows shit the player doesn't and the correct path through the game is one where Meetra speaks like she knows what she's talking about.

Alternatively, you can choose expository dialogues, but it's clear the narrative can't reconcile this. It's cool having expositoon as dialogue options, but actually choosing them is immersion breaking and only serves to clutter the conversation window on repeat playthroughs

The overwhelming bulk of dialogue options are just expository in nature. It's not that good either, it's stuff like, "Jack? You mean the Jack that did this long-winded important thing? That jack?"

I feel like having the player be the one who gives expository dialogue is a great way to make exposition seem more natural with an extra benefit of not having the player character be some kind of farm boy/ isekayed boy. It also makes the player feel smart.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
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Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,898
Artist is not afraid of some embellishments for extra aesthetics and we know these old ui in games worked, even if "buttohs r different1!".

I agree. I love the Bloodlines GUI because it fits into the atmosphere of the game! Now compare that to the minimalist GUIs of today...
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth


I talk about content of Fallout (and one thing from Fallout 2) that never made it into the shipping game, either because the design was rejected, or we didn't have time to make it, or it wasn't finished by the time the game shipped.
 

Goral

Arcane
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The Real Fanboy
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I talk about content of Fallout (and one thing from Fallout 2) that never made it into the shipping game, either because the design was rejected, or we didn't have time to make it, or it wasn't finished by the time the game shipped.

He says things that make you think that anything by his hand should be pure incline (and it was up until him disbanding Troika), e.g. saying that talking deathclaws or supernatural things in Fallout were a bad design (and he mentioned Chris Avellone who was against ghosts in Fallout 2 for example). All of this suggests that maybe he didn't have much freedom working on TOW.
 

Maxie

Wholesome Chungus
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of course arcanum didn't have cut content
imagine my surprise
I heard the gnome "conspiracy" quest was supposed to be more complicated.
i dont care what you did or did not hear for you took no part whatsoever in arcanum's development
tim cain says in the video posted just above that they put whatever ideas they had into arcanum so there was no content to be cut
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,206
IDK if a grown man can't figure that out maybe he shouldn't be playing arcanum. I guess it's pointless content and the fast travel button could be marked more clearly but this is definitely a 'can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink' moment.
One thing that could MASSIVELY help is changing "maybe you should consult the map" to "we should avoid the wolves by using fast travel". Especially if the pack of wolves at the end was indeed intended to make you use fast travel mechanic. The way it stands in game is just not clear enough so it's very easy to dismiss, especially considering Virgil's overall attitude towards the player.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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36,468
IDK if a grown man can't figure that out maybe he shouldn't be playing arcanum. I guess it's pointless content and the fast travel button could be marked more clearly but this is definitely a 'can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink' moment.
One thing that could MASSIVELY help is changing "maybe you should consult the map" to "we should avoid the wolves by using fast travel". Especially if the pack of wolves at the end was indeed intended to make you use fast travel mechanic. The way it stands in game is just not clear enough so it's very easy to dismiss, especially considering Virgil's overall attitude towards the player.
Breaking the fourth wall through character dialogue is really not something they wanted to do and clicking on that first dialogue option does bring it up.
 

Maldoror

Augur
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Jun 10, 2015
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They lost the source code to Fallout? I missed this entirely. I just assumed that Tim had sequestered it away somewhere amongst his plethora of notes and data, and no official sources (obviously discounting the dozens of serious modders who would kill for it) had asked him for it or already had it.
 

Diggfinger

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Belgium
They lost the source code to Fallout? I missed this entirely. I just assumed that Tim had sequestered it away somewhere amongst his plethora of notes and data, and no official sources (obviously discounting the dozens of serious modders who would kill for it) had asked him for it or already had it.

I thought the team behind Fallout: Nevada (and Sonara) either had or the code, or at least access to parts of it?

Or were they reverse-engineering the original engine....believe that's what the "Fallout 1 in 2" project did
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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I thought the team behind Fallout: Nevada (and Sonara) either had or the code, or at least access to parts of it?

Or were they reverse-engineering the original engine....believe that's what the "Fallout 1 in 2" project did
They released a toolset for Fallout 2. Josh Sawyer chastised people for not making stuff with it given all the effort it took to make it happen.
 

Maxie

Wholesome Chungus
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I thought the team behind Fallout: Nevada (and Sonara) either had or the code, or at least access to parts of it?

Or were they reverse-engineering the original engine....believe that's what the "Fallout 1 in 2" project did
They released a toolset for Fallout 2. Josh Sawyer chastised people for not making stuff with it given all the effort it took to make it happen.
well bully for him he's devolved into a discoshit developer
 

PapaPetro

Guest
I thought the team behind Fallout: Nevada (and Sonara) either had or the code, or at least access to parts of it?

Or were they reverse-engineering the original engine....believe that's what the "Fallout 1 in 2" project did
They released a toolset for Fallout 2. Josh Sawyer chastised people for not making stuff with it given all the effort it took to make it happen.
It became Fallout Tactics.
 

tommy heavenly6

Learned
Joined
Dec 22, 2022
Messages
143
Cain: "Actually those things that people dislike weren't my fault, blame others"
Avellone: "Not my fault either"
Boyarski: "Nope, not me"
Sawyer: "I dindu nuffin, I was shouting at people to add more gay characters but they didn't listen"

We're running out of names to blame. Who's left?
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,927
Cain: "Actually those things that people dislike weren't my fault, blame others"
Avellone: "Not my fault either"
Boyarski: "Nope, not me"
Sawyer: "I dindu nuffin, I was shouting at people to add more gay characters but they didn't listen"

We're running out of names to blame. Who's left?
No we arent, its sawyer.
 

Terra

Cipher
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Messages
910
What a letdown, here's hoping a second channel, Cain on Gays, is in the works soon, while the Codex is typically my one-stop shop for homo expertise, doesn't hurt to have a second opinion.
 
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Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,468
"We can't let people work on the projects they want to because what if we're making a game that no one wants to make?" :lol:

Though Valve having this policy resulted in them not making games at all, so there is some merit to it.
 

Black

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
1,872,980
too late mr cain, i've already unsubscribed
much in the vein of fallout perks, your power ups have drawbacks
Ummm, akshually, Marxie, FO perks are pretty much nothing but positives. It's traits that have drawbacks.
Do better.
 

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