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Jagged Alliance 3 from Haemimont Games

destinae vomitus

Educated
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Messages
144
Still haven't picked this up, something about how the tone of it appears, is keeping me away.

It seems very..cartoonish? Or overly campy?

Is there anything remotely serious about the tone of the game?

Or is it essentially like what Bethesda did with fallout 3 in turning the campiness to 11?

JA2 had it's silly moments for sure, but I don't feel like it was the entire theme of it. JA3 seems like those moments are it's entire fucking identity...or am I off base?

The main conflict is mostly played straight but outside of that there's a lot of screwball nonsense and on the nose pop culture references. In that regard this game to me felt like what people purport Fallout 2 to be like. One of the first things I came across past the tutorial island was a cooky archeologist dressed up like Indie (he has a whip even) who had a "magical" chicken companion, so at least I knew what I was in for and wasn't too surprised when I later ran into Karen (who wants to speak to the manager, hilarious!) or a straight-up sidequest involving Courage the Cowardly Dog.

Besides that a lot of the mercs are just way more goofy and even more one-note despite having far more lines than JA2. Igor never shuts up about vodka or UNCLE IVAN, Ice now talks like a gangbanger (dats raycest), Thor exclusively speaks in new age babble, Steroid has BIG MUSCLES, Blood is now into cooking so I hope you enjoy hearing him talk about truffles whenever he goes prone, and so on. That being said I did find some of them funny at times, but the writing isn't anywhere near as sharp as JA2.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,241
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It's very hit and miss. Some of the mercs are cool (I would say most, but not by much), others are somehow way more of a caricature than in JA2 despite having ten times more lines, like destinae vomitus says. The game had two writers, and my extreme conjecture is that one of them knew what he was doing and the other didn't. One of them is Ian Currie, incidentally.
 
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Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Jan 12, 2004
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11,872
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Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Yeah, a lot of the character writing either misses the tone of the originals or simply makes up completely new hooks, which don't fit well. I always loved Grunty for being an understated professional with a thick German accent and that was it - now his entire personality centers around an Oedipus complex? Why make fundamental changes to the old characters if you didn't like them? Just create new ones. Still, some of the characters are as true to the originals as you could ask for with a new voice cast. Since Tex is my favorite of all time and his personality wasn't changed at all, I can take the weak portrayals with the good. (I just wish they'd at least paid for an ESL actor, his Japanese accent is terrible.)
 
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raeven

Educated
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
306
As an American, I found the whole Karen side quest EXTREMELY offensive!! She was a scared white woman, far from her home country, stuck in a refugee camp with a bunch of savages and yet they had the GALL to mock her misfortune, making her out to be some kind of sheltered, entitled princess!!

I've half a mind to write Haemimont a letter letting them know PRECISELY how I feel about this slanderous mischaracterization of our nations women!!
 
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Fatberg Slim

Educated
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Joined
Mar 4, 2022
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99
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Q-Link
Yeah, a lot of the character writing either misses the tone of the originals or simply makes up completely new hooks, which don't fit well. I always loved Grunty for being an understated professional with a thick German accent and that was it - now his entire personality centers around an Oedipus complex? Why make fundamental changes to the old characters if you didn't like them? Just create new ones. Still, some of the characters are as true to the originals as you could ask for with a new voice cast. Since Tex is my favorite of all time and his personality wasn't changed at all, I can take the weak portrayals with the good. (I just wish they'd at least paid for an ESL actor, his Japanese accent is terrible.)

Ah, good to know. I'll probably buy it now that I know they didn’t make him more PC. Time to saddoru appu!

Does he still have really shitty WIS? That was probably the least stereotypical thing about him, although I suppose he earned it by choosing to LARP as a cowboy.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,872
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Fatberg Slim Tex got a substantial stat boost - he's considered "Elite" with a 90 marksmanship now, which I love - but he's still not a thinker. Anything that doesn't have to do with cowboy movies and trick shots, he has nothing to say about. Which is exactly how he should be imo. And hey, 52 Wisdom is above average!
 
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ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
30,035
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
As an American, I found the whole Karen side quest EXTREMELY offensive!! She was a scared white woman, far from her home country, stuck in a refugee camp with a bunch of savages and yet they had the GALL to mock her misfortune, making her out to be some kind of sheltered, entitled princess!!

I've half a mind to write Haemimont a letter letting them know PRECISELY how I feel about this slanderous mischaracterizarion of our nations women!!
Karen-grade response lmao
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,241
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Been trying an ironman run while testing some mods. After a few dead starts I got a good campaign going, captured a few mines and got a full party of dudes. Then it all went wrong when we tried to assault the Good Place. Those prison dudes are quite a bit tougher and more accurate than the regular mooks, and we had a horrible start as I forgot there are moving searchlights and let everyone get spotted before we'd even breached the outer wall. That made getting up to the main building very tricky, with dudes overwatching out of every window in the place. We made it over there with only minor injuries thanks to liberal use of smoke grenades, but then got pincered by dudes coming down off the roof. Some cleverly set machine gun overwatches from the prison guards and we were done for. No one made it out alive.

But, this being a Jagged Alliance game, the death of every single hired soldier doesn't mean the end of a campaign. I put together the best B-team I could with what little cash I had in reserve, and they managed to mop up the few enemies that remained using only shitty pistols and a couple of grenades. Not sure if I'll continue given that most of the cool mercs I had yet to try are now deceased, but we'll see. At least they were avenged.

Some notes on a few of the mods I tried:
  • Pinned Down: Adds proper suppression, with a tiered system of AP-decreasing status effects that get more severe the more bullets whizz past you in a turn. Works on proximity, so shooting near a cluster of enemies applies suppression on all of them. It even forces pose changes on heavily suppressed units. Very cool, but it feels like the effect triggers per attack instead of per bullet. In any case, great mod, highly recommended.
  • Bleeding Mod: Adds bleeding effects to all bullets in the game, simulating the old systems of open wounds. More incoming damage means more bleed stacks means more bleeding damage per turn, and every stack of bleed decreases AP as well. Good stuff. Makes heavily wounded units a lot less effective, more in line with the old games. Also makes bandaging very important which makes the action economy more interesting. It was almost never a good use of a turn in the base game, but with this mod it is.
  • Revised Wound Effects: Adds AP loss on hits. A good companion to the bleeding mod. Combine those two and getting shot is a big deal, which is great.
  • Revised Autofire: Makes automatic fire work like it should, i.e. with progressively worse chance to hit for each bullet. Also sets auto damage to 100% instead of 50% like in the base game. I honestly can't tell how well it works, but it seems to make auto fire less accurate in general, which keeps the full bullet damage from being OP. It also makes enemies more dangerous, as they love to shoot bursts. Overall an improvement over the base game.
  • Revised Mags: Adds magazines for guns, for mercs to keep in their personal inventories. Doesn't remove ammo from the shared stash, but makes it so that reloading directly from the stash takes triple the AP of reloading from a magazine. It's a great idea, but the implementation isn't quite there. You can't remove a magazine from a gun without scrapping it, which makes magazines very hard to come by, and some guns don't have magazines at all. In the end I enjoyed it just for making reloading cost more AP, which makes things a bit more challenging. Hopefully there's some further development on this that makes mags easier to come by.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,512
Been trying an ironman run while testing some mods. After a few dead starts I got a good campaign going, captured a few mines and got a full party of dudes. Then it all went wrong when we tried to assault the Good Place. Those prison dudes are quite a bit tougher and more accurate than the regular mooks, and we had a horrible start as I forgot there are moving searchlights and let everyone get spotted before we'd even breached the outer wall. That made getting up to the main building very tricky, with dudes overwatching out of every window in the place. We made it over there with only minor injuries thanks to liberal use of smoke grenades, but then got pincered by dudes coming down off the roof. Some cleverly set machine gun overwatches from the prison guards and we were done for. No one made it out alive.

But, this being a Jagged Alliance game, the death of every single hired soldier doesn't mean the end of a campaign. I put together the best B-team I could with what little cash I had in reserve, and they managed to mop up the few enemies that remained using only shitty pistols and a couple of grenades. Not sure if I'll continue given that most of the cool mercs I had yet to try are now deceased, but we'll see. At least they were avenged.

Some notes on a few of the mods I tried:
  • Pinned Down: Adds proper suppression, with a tiered system of AP-decreasing status effects that get more severe the more bullets whizz past you in a turn. Works on proximity, so shooting near a cluster of enemies applies suppression on all of them. It even forces pose changes on heavily suppressed units. Very cool, but it feels like the effect triggers per attack instead of per bullet. In any case, great mod, highly recommended.
  • Bleeding Mod: Adds bleeding effects to all bullets in the game, simulating the old systems of open wounds. More incoming damage means more bleed stacks means more bleeding damage per turn, and every stack of bleed decreases AP as well. Good stuff. Makes heavily wounded units a lot less effective, more in line with the old games. Also makes bandaging very important which makes the action economy more interesting. It was almost never a good use of a turn in the base game, but with this mod it is.
  • Revised Wound Effects: Adds AP loss on hits. A good companion to the bleeding mod. Combine those two and getting shot is a big deal, which is great.
  • Revised Autofire: Makes automatic fire work like it should, i.e. with progressively worse chance to hit for each bullet. Also sets auto damage to 100% instead of 50% like in the base game. I honestly can't tell how well it works, but it seems to make auto fire less accurate in general, which keeps the full bullet damage from being OP. It also makes enemies more dangerous, as they love to shoot bursts. Overall an improvement over the base game.
  • Revised Mags: Adds magazines for guns, for mercs to keep in their personal inventories. Doesn't remove ammo from the shared stash, but makes it so that reloading directly from the stash takes triple the AP of reloading from a magazine. It's a great idea, but the implementation isn't quite there. You can't remove a magazine from a gun without scrapping it, which makes magazines very hard to come by, and some guns don't have magazines at all. In the end I enjoyed it just for making reloading cost more AP, which makes things a bit more challenging. Hopefully there's some further development on this that makes mags easier to come by.
Sounds like mods are already moving in a good direction. Maybe in few months up to 1 year this game will be worth playing
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,507
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Been trying an ironman run while testing some mods. After a few dead starts I got a good campaign going, captured a few mines and got a full party of dudes. Then it all went wrong when we tried to assault the Good Place. Those prison dudes are quite a bit tougher and more accurate than the regular mooks, and we had a horrible start as I forgot there are moving searchlights and let everyone get spotted before we'd even breached the outer wall. That made getting up to the main building very tricky, with dudes overwatching out of every window in the place. We made it over there with only minor injuries thanks to liberal use of smoke grenades, but then got pincered by dudes coming down off the roof. Some cleverly set machine gun overwatches from the prison guards and we were done for. No one made it out alive.

But, this being a Jagged Alliance game, the death of every single hired soldier doesn't mean the end of a campaign. I put together the best B-team I could with what little cash I had in reserve, and they managed to mop up the few enemies that remained using only shitty pistols and a couple of grenades. Not sure if I'll continue given that most of the cool mercs I had yet to try are now deceased, but we'll see. At least they were avenged.

Some notes on a few of the mods I tried:
  • Pinned Down: Adds proper suppression, with a tiered system of AP-decreasing status effects that get more severe the more bullets whizz past you in a turn. Works on proximity, so shooting near a cluster of enemies applies suppression on all of them. It even forces pose changes on heavily suppressed units. Very cool, but it feels like the effect triggers per attack instead of per bullet. In any case, great mod, highly recommended.
  • Bleeding Mod: Adds bleeding effects to all bullets in the game, simulating the old systems of open wounds. More incoming damage means more bleed stacks means more bleeding damage per turn, and every stack of bleed decreases AP as well. Good stuff. Makes heavily wounded units a lot less effective, more in line with the old games. Also makes bandaging very important which makes the action economy more interesting. It was almost never a good use of a turn in the base game, but with this mod it is.
  • Revised Wound Effects: Adds AP loss on hits. A good companion to the bleeding mod. Combine those two and getting shot is a big deal, which is great.
  • Revised Autofire: Makes automatic fire work like it should, i.e. with progressively worse chance to hit for each bullet. Also sets auto damage to 100% instead of 50% like in the base game. I honestly can't tell how well it works, but it seems to make auto fire less accurate in general, which keeps the full bullet damage from being OP. It also makes enemies more dangerous, as they love to shoot bursts. Overall an improvement over the base game.
  • Revised Mags: Adds magazines for guns, for mercs to keep in their personal inventories. Doesn't remove ammo from the shared stash, but makes it so that reloading directly from the stash takes triple the AP of reloading from a magazine. It's a great idea, but the implementation isn't quite there. You can't remove a magazine from a gun without scrapping it, which makes magazines very hard to come by, and some guns don't have magazines at all. In the end I enjoyed it just for making reloading cost more AP, which makes things a bit more challenging. Hopefully there's some further development on this that makes mags easier to come by.
These mods all sound really great. Did you encounter stability or related issues? Do they change the difficulty of the game much?
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,241
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Did you encounter stability or related issues?
I meant to cover that, but forgot. I had a couple of serious bugs, including one that softlocked the game whenever I started a repair operation, which I suspect would have doomed my campaign eventually if it had got that far. I couldn't tell you exactly which mods caused my issues, although the mags mod is my prime suspect. Anyway, yes, unfortunately the mods introduced some bugs. Bear in mind that I enabled and disabled a couple of the mods mid-campaign (a few by necessity, as they were removed from the steam workshop), which might have screwed things up.

Edit: I've pinpointed all notable bugs to the mags mod, as suspected. That thing's not ready for use yet. The others should be fine.
Do they change the difficulty of the game much?
They make it a bit harder, but not outrageously so, at least not as far as I got. As I said, the main thing is that getting shot, or getting shot at, is a much bigger deal than in the base game, which favours the enemies since they've got the numbers advantage. All the mods have adjustable values, so it's possible to tailor the experience to be as easy or hard as you want it to be. There's also a mod to increase enemy numbers in general, which I might try. Overall, as someone who thought the base game was a shade too easy on the hardest difficulty, I'm finding that with the mentioned mods on their standard settings the game isn't a cakewalk by any means, but not unmanageable either. It feels pretty good.
 
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0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
546
Location
Not here
So what's the consensus? Is it actually worth playing?

I've seen the gameplay videos way back and they looked like ass, but that was before the developer switch I think.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
14,296
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You can try the demo. Impressions seem all over the place. I like it, but acknowledge that there are things that can be improved and/or changed.
 

Kruyurk

Learned
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
502
Sometimes you have additional little challenges on the maps. Once Blood decided that every enemy must be ended by groin shots. The rest of the team sighted but obliged, because Blood is carrying them. He did more than his share of the work by stabbing two scuzzwad in the dick to death.
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,489
So what's the consensus? Is it actually worth playing?
It's good and probably one of the best tactical games we've gotten in years. With the modding potential, it could end up going from good to great.
 

0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
546
Location
Not here
I'm very surprised by how good this game turned out.

And the fact that most of the problems it has can be ironed out by patches and mods.

The writing's actually good and it's heavier on the roleplaying aspect which is great.

I'm still in early game but I'm enjoying it so far.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,612
I was also impressed by how quickly the devs patched in an official, non-buggy version of the Active Pause mod.
From what I recall in the mod's description, it was a feature from debug mode that one guy discovered how to enable.

My impression of the dev team is that they were second-guessing themselves too much when it comes to balance,
but had the right idea to leave stuff in for modders.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,612
I think 0wca got JA3, JA3D and JA:BiAtch (back in action) all mixed up.

Easy mistake to make. The two latter abortions is where everyone has the :prosper:face.
413219000.jpg

Kill...me...
1C4F104614B2ED98D283285E84AFD395A594D74D

Holy crap, just googling this shit gave me ptsd.
 

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