Personally, I think it's now safe to say Disco Elysium is better than Planescape: Torment.

[Ladonna]

Should have made this a poll with anonymous voting. I wonder what way the nuDex would swing.

 

[Tarkleigh]

Torment had lots of text but was elegant and comparatively concise in its writing, while Disco Elysium is purple prose through and through combined with pretentious pseudo-intellectual content.

"Purple prose through and through"? You're trying too hard. The title of the King of the Purple Prose goes to Torment: Tides of Numenera. I mean, this isn't even a contest.

Tides of Numenera is even worse, that's true. But that does not mean DE has good writing on it's own or when compared to PST

 

[Junmarko]

Disco Elysium ha-

No.

 

[markec]

Still havent played Disco Elysium and still dont plan to do it.

 

[Rincewind]

Fans of Disco Elysium-style RPGs, I have a great recommendation for you!

You can even tune the radio to different channels, select the colour of your truck, and so on. Wonderful roleplaying possibilities!

 

[Tihskael]

Someone recommended I bring my ideas here to get your guys opinions.

You can get the same opinions at your local old age home.

 

[Harthwain]

But that does not mean DE has good writing on it's own or when compared to PST

It's a matter of opinion I suppose. I was laughing all the way through it. The prose may be elaborate or ornate at times, but I didn't feel it was detracting from the actual content. In fact the opposite - it was helping to highlight the meaning behind it. The only skills that I've found to be lacking were Shivers and Espirit de Corps. The first was trying a bit too hard to appear mystical (in too many words), the latter gave a bunch of "flashbacks" to some people you are never going to meet who were doing something somewhere else. Everything else was pretty damn good.

 

[EtcEtcEtc]

Has any other video game genre become as unrecognizable as RPG has?
It's like listing the genre of GTAV as "racing" because there's cars and you can race them.

There is no way you can convince me Disco Elysium is in the same genre as Wizardry. You simply cannot.

How about Wizardry and Planescape?

The reality is that a game like Wizardry has little in common with Planescape or Fallout.

Wizardry is great, but it's nothing more then mapping, slight character build, looting and combat. There are no choices beyond moment to moment game choices, there is no role playing other then how you build your character, there is minimal to no story, no side-quests, etc etc.

I would never argue it's not an RPG because it clearly is. But you all seem to look at 'RPG's' as a definitive genre rather then a much broader encompassing umbrella.

RPG's are a genre the way that "Sci-Fi" is a genre of books. It doesn't take much for a book to be Sci-Fi, but at the same time it is still obvious when a book is not Science Fiction. It's the same with RPG's.

(Also your argument about NHL and it's skills, character builds, etc, falls into the old "I know it when I see it" saying of the Supreme Court and Pornography).

You all should unclench your buttholes about what is and isn't an overall RPG - from inception the games classified as RPG's haven't shared as much as it's being made out - and use that autistic energy to argue about what falls under specific sub-genres of an RPG.

Also, I'll take any argument about what is and isn't an RPG seriously around here when Japanese Wizardry games WHICH ARE JUST WIZARDRY 1, aren't relegated to the JRPG ghetto.

 

[Latro]

there is no role playing

Videogame RPGs are defined by RPG mechanics. Table-top roleplaying is defined by real time theater faggin'. big difference.

 

[Humanophage]

I'd say DE is a narrative RPG like King of Dragon Pass, Six Ages, Alter Ego, or Sir Brante.

Besides, it does have some combat which is framed narratively (the confrontation with the soldiers).

Personally, in RPG terms, I think it suffers the most from the fact that you can boost your stats too easily with items. But I like the fact that failure is taken care of in narrative terms, whereas often in RPGs you just have "you failed, so nothing happens" (except in e.g. Fallout with dumb options).

 

[Silva]

My definition is succinct. If your RPG does not have combat, it is not an RPG. This is what ties "JRPG", "CRPG", and any other kind of "RPG" in the genre together: a leveling system that keeps track of stats that grows via combat. Disco Elysium is not an RPG. Planescape Torment is a

It's a weird definition, considering that combat does nothing for PST and could as well be left out. PST is a CYOA-graphic novel in audiovisual format. I never played Disco Elysium but if it's exactly like PST but sans combat, it's already an improvement in my book.

 

[J1M]

If Planescape is an RPG then Disco Elysium is.

If Disco Elysium is an RPG then every game with "RPG elements" is automatically an RPG, which is essentially 80-90% of games made in the past decade.
It's an adventure game with RPG elements, but it is not an RPG.

How is it not an RPG? Everything you do is decided by die rolls, and they all are dependent on your skills. You have a limited amount of skill points which you get on leveling, so you can't do it all.

I mean, I get that "what is an RPG" is a nebulous concept - but the only thing it lacks that Planescape has, mechanically, is combat.

This is the character sheet of an average character in NHL 2019:

Is NHL 2019 an RPG?

I don't know about that, but going by the stats, Wayne Gretzky Hockey (released 1988 on Amiga) is by far the best RPG made by Bethesda, ever:

Game Design:
Wayne Gretzky, Ed Fletcher, Christopher Weaver, Julian Lefay, Clyde Findley, Ken McInerney, Larry Murphy, Doug Carpenter, Dennis Hartigan Jr., Chris Jackson

Special Thanks:
Bobby Orr, Terry Murray, Doug Carpenter, Michael Barnett, The Washington Capitals

Sports games (with stats) are unequivocally closer to authentic RPGs than even Disco Elysium. They lack leveling, items, and combat, however.

Characters in (some) sports games can increase their stats. Pretty sure this was even a feature of NBA Jam for the SNES. The combat is non-lethal and the winner is the team with a better score on the scoreboard. Hockey games also often contain combat within combat in the form of brawls.

Not immediately convinced that an RPG requires items.

 

[MF]

If DE were a PnP RPG, the DM would be controlling Harry and the players would each be an individual skill trying to persuade the DM to do something, usually in vain but always prompting some edgy response. I don't know what I'd call it, but at the very least it's RPG-adjacent.

You got it wrong. DM is acting as the skills, while players are Harry.

Ostensibly maybe, but in practice it didn't feel that way.

Did you feel like you were controlling Harry? I didn't.

You click on something and have Harry interact with a person or object in various hilarious and depressing ways. Seldom in a way that I wanted or expected.

 

[Harthwain]

Ostensibly maybe, but in practice it didn't feel that way.

Did you feel like you were controlling Harry? I didn't.

You click on something and have Harry interact with a person or object in various hilarious and depressing ways. Seldom in a way that I wanted or expected.

I did. For the most part you're in the driving seat, with skills throwing you suggestions. The stronger your skills get, the less likely it is they suggestions will be reasonable. Ultimately you may go too far and they can even take over and do something you didn't want or expect, but that's on the player for going ham on certain skills and thinking there are no drawbacks for doing so. As a result I never felt like outcomes were out of place, even if they weren't always what I wanted or expected. Hell, once or twice I got what I wanted by FAILING a skill check.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

I couldn't finish Disco Elysium, everything felt linear and not much real choice or option to do things. Lots of fluff for different flavor text but that was it. I think i stopped playing when I passed a dice roll for a special dialog choice and then like the flavor text was about seeing a flower pedal floating past my face and I just couldn't handle it anymore. RPG design by retards. Atleast with Planescape it was wierd and creepy and very new and then you mix in I was a lot younger so even though it may be similar in design it's less faggoty because it's old. K thanks.

 

[Tarkleigh]

But that does not mean DE has good writing on it's own or when compared to PST

It's a matter of opinion I suppose. I was laughing all the way through it. The prose may be elaborate or ornate at times, but I didn't feel it was detracting from the actual content. In fact the opposite - it was helping to highlight the meaning behind it. The only skills that I've found to be lacking were Shivers and Espirit de Corps. The first was trying a bit too hard to appear mystical (in too many words), the latter gave a bunch of "flashbacks" to some people you are never going to meet who were doing something somewhere else. Everything else was pretty damn good.

That is probably the key difference. I took it seriously and the writing is much less fun then. My impression was always that the authors were trying to create something gritty and hard-boiled and overdid it, though I could be wrong as I did not follow the game much and haven't read any interviews with them.

 

[Faarbaute]

It will never be safe to say that Disco Elysium is better than Planescape: Torment, yeat_keef . If I were you, I'd watch my back around here from now on.

Spoiler

 

[Jasede]

Don't respond to the troll Jasede. You know it's a troll. You know nobody actually is this dumb. You know this was written on purpose to make autistic people like yourself mad.
Don't fall for it, Jasede. Just don't...

Om gam ganapataye namaha
Om gam ganapataye namaha...

Deep breaths. No heart attack over a troll post.

/
An excellent troll. Low effort, but elegant. I actually felt my blood boil and my heart ache. Very good work. Almost I was tempted to write a long post about how that communist garbage isn't an RPG. How it doesn't have combat or dungeons. How it's basically an adventure game with skill checks and awful Twitter writing.


But you know, I didn't. I'm very proud of myself. I've ascended.

 

[Jasede]

Harthwain

How dare to rate me retarded you absolute gigantic faggot piece of human trash? I hope someone shits in your brain so there's at least something to be found in that vast emptiness in there that can make even a black hole look crowded. You giant piece of shit.

 

[Harthwain]

How dare to rate me retarded you absolute gigantic faggot piece of human trash?

Because calling this "communist garbage" when it shits all over the communist ideology is retarded?

 

[Jasede]

The author is clearly an insane leftist and some "haha funny" jabs against communism that are sprinkled in the game do not conceal the agenda visible throughout.

 

[NJClaw]

How it doesn't have combat or dungeons.

I still haven't seen a satisfying explanation of how is it possible for Planescape: Torment to have the worst combat and dungeons in any RPG ever while still being Codex's top RPG of all times.

And if combat is so important, the single combat encounter in Disco Elysium is better than all the trash mobs you have to cleave through in P:T.

 

[Trashos]

Regardless of his point, it took OP 3 paragraphs to describe the "standing on the shoulders of giants" concept.

 

[Konjad]

While Disco Elysium is elaborate and does kinda "push" you towards your own agenda providing more and more elaborate dialogue options (and unlike average 'dexer I think it was made decently enough, where commie would give you even more commie and fascist would give you more fascist) they fall short in the long term. Disco Elysium is a great commentary on the modern and by it I mean current politics, at best 100 years ago and 100 years in the future, but does it even that? People in the 1000 wouldn't understand it and people in the 3000 probably won't understand it either if it still exists. It's just a nice adventure game about modern politics, but that's all. Planescape Torment, on the other hand, touches on the ideas valid 4000 years ago and possibly 4000 years in the future - mortality and morality. Even if general constructs of morality (and mortality?) change the themes the game touches will most likely be ambiguous.

So no, they aren't similar in any way.

 

[Harthwain]

The author is clearly an insane leftist and some "haha funny" jabs against communism that are sprinkled in the game do not conceal the agenda visible throughout.

And what agenda would that be? The author may be a leftist (or pretend-Marxist/whatever) but it doesn't really change the fact that communism is depicted as a failed ideology caused by people infected with the brain-eating virus and in order to "subscribe" to it you have to be really detached from reality. It also gets a plenty of mentions for being criminal/genocidal (as does Moralitern, but with its own bent).

 

[HeatEXTEND]

What do yall think?

Quality troll; will look forward to next attempt!

that's very generous.