Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order - action adventure from Respawn Entertainment

[Citizen]

The decline started with the prequels where everyone and its grandma can use a lightsaber. It soon was all a clusterfuck of waving lightsabers with no sense or rhyme.

Yes. The only star wars media after the OT that really got the "Jedi are very rare and very OP" vibe is mandalorian

 

[gurugeorge]

Lightsaber duels were cool in the SW-OT because they were few and far between, and the Jedi's lore was only hinted at, and never really exposed and hence trivialized.

The decline started with the prequels where everyone and its grandma can use a lightsaber. It soon was all a clusterfuck of waving lightsabers with no sense or rhyme.

The videogames declined too. With all those Jedi magic powers, SW became just another dumbed down power-fantasy series.

Yeah that moment in particular was absolutely silly and really cheapened the whole lightsaber thing. Although it is sort of justified in terms of the story, it looks ridiculous.

I always thought they could have strengthened that scene in this way though: when Jedi are in some numbers, they form up in a formation, with all the lightsabers at the same angle.

IOW, after the fight starts, there can be visual lightsaber chaos, but at just that point in the scene, before any fighting starts, if they had all been holding their lightsabers at the same angle, in the same pose, absolutely still, and not waving them around individually like dorks, it would have looked harmonious and not silly. It would also have been a "cool new thing about Jedi that we didn't know."

Given that they're supposed to have some knowledge of military tactics, it also makes sense that when there are more than two of them, they'd act more in concert, in a quasi-military fashion.

Generally I appreciated the expansion of the lore in the prequels, and I think to some extent the prequels' aesthetic was inspired by KOTOR, and that's alright in my book. I'm not so hung up on the "used world" feeling of the main movies that it disappointed me to see the Republic in all its Art Deco glory. But Lucas just didn't quite think it through enough.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the prequels were meant to be like that though, it's to explain why jedi barely exist in the original trilogy

 

[gurugeorge]

the prequels were meant to be like that though, it's to explain why jedi barely exist in the original trilogy

I guess in the sense of internal bickering you're right, but I'm thinking of a way to make a bunch of people with lightsabers not look ridiculous. Imagine if just at that moment they'd done something synchronized, like formed up in a defensive circle and done like a special move, almost like Busby Berkely style or synchronized swimming from above:-



Obviously not a whole dance routine, but just like just two or three kung-fu type "ready" moves, all done in sync. That would have a) looked cool, menacing and strong, and b) been "a cool new thing about Jedi that we didn't know" (and you know there always has to be a "cool new thing that we didn't know about x" in these types of sequels/prequels). You could have had a special musical theme or thud to emphasize it. Plus also film buffs would have appreciated the visual reference.

Then at least they wouldn't have looked like a bunch of dorks waving plastic lightsabers about randomly in their bedrooms.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Lightsaber duels were cool in the SW-OT because they were few and far between, and the Jedi's lore was only hinted at, and never really exposed and hence trivialized.

The decline started with the prequels where everyone and its grandma can use a lightsaber. It soon was all a clusterfuck of waving lightsabers with no sense or rhyme.

The videogames declined too. With all those Jedi magic powers, SW became just another dumbed down power-fantasy series.

The original fights were cool because the fights themselves were secondary to what was actually happening, which was story building.

In the final duel with Vader, the actual fencing part was almost an after throught. It was all about Luke trying to resist the Dark Side, not falling to the Emperor, refusing to become another Vader etc.

Which is not to say there is no place for cool coreographies. The spear duel in the Hidden Forstress, the primary inspiration of lightsaber duels, was amazing, but even there the story played an important role.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I just finished this. I was surprised how much I enjoyed it, especially because it was constantly shoving its pants-on-head-retarded design decisions in my face. I mostly chalk it up to my childhood love of Star Wars, and how well this game, despite being primarily beholden to the garbage prequels, actually feels like Star Wars. The art and sound design teams absolutely nailed the Star Wars feel, and it went a long way towards helping me tolerate all the bullshit. I can't say I can muster up more than a half-hearted recommendation to someone who isn't a fan of the original trilogy/original EU though.

The Good:

+Again, art and sound design. Can't be overstated how well these teams did their jobs. VA is quite solid as well.
+Level Design is actually pretty good. Definitely the best in a SW action game since Mysteries of the Sith.
+Low power level. I think this was the smartest decision the design team made. Cal is decidedly not a prequel style jedi-superhero. He can push and pull things around, he can slow things down for a brief second, and he can do a tiny little double jump. That's it. It helps distance the game from the utterly idiotic prequels, and makes Cal feel much more like Luke in terms of power level.
+The lightsaber duels. They're not amazing, but they're fun and satisfying, and the slower pace of combat again makes them feel more like the duels from the OT rather than the silliness of the prequels.

The Meh:

) Story itself is just... sort of there. The actual dialogue and writing isn't that bad, but I can't say I was remotely invested in any of the characters or plot arcs.
)Kashyyyk is the lame prequel version and not the substantially cooler older EU version. What are you gonna do?
)The parry mechanic isn't quite tight enough to support the game's focus on it. It works well enough most of the time, but then sometimes it just... doesn't.
) There are a few cinematics that are... really weird. Like whoever was working on them wasn't informed of the scale between Greez and Cal, because suddenly Greez is 4 times larger than he is anywhere else in the game. I don't care that much about that sort of thing, but it was pretty lolworthy in a AAA production.
)It continues the ridiculous trope of maintaining that very few Jedi escaped the Purge, while also introducing a bunch of Jedi that escaped the Purge. It's not really the game's fault considering how moronic Order66 and the Jedi Purge have been portrayed by Lucas, and they're definitely not the first to do it, but yeah it's silly. I think the last time I checked the pre-Disney EU there were something like 50 named Jedi known to have survived it, which... sort of diminishes its dramatic importance.

The Bad:

- The fucking slides. It's like someone played the slide levels from Mario 64 and decided they were the apex of game design. Jedi: Fallen Order has, no joke, about 50 of these slides and they all fucking suck a hairy butthole. God they're fucking terrible.
- Too much Cinematic AAA bullshit. QTEs, slow-crawling through narrow passageways, the aforementioned slides.
- Loading screens "disguised" as elevators. I hate that shit. Just give me a loading screen with some pretty concept art and a tool tip.
- The exploration. I feel so bad for the Level Design team because they made pretty well-crafted levels with some fun secrets and then someone decided that 90% of them should be filled with cosmetic rewards. What a fucking joke.
- The game just won't commit to being the Soulslike it wants to be thought of as. I played on the Jedi Master difficulty and the game had become extremely easy by the halfway point. I think I died twice in the entirety of the 2nd half of the game, and it was mostly because I just wasn't paying that much attention to what I was doing.
-Enemy variety... sort of. There are actually a good amount of enemy types in the game (probably 40ish?), but they never require any tactic beyond parrying and dodging. The game also largely fails to take advantage of the EU's awesome bestiary, and goes for pretty tame monsters in general.

So... yeah. I'd probably say it's a 6/10 objectively, but for someone like me who grew up watching and loving the OT and EU, it's probably an 8/10. To me it was definitely worth the $5 I spent on it, and I would be willing to pay as much as $15 for a competent sequel.

 

[ADL]

+Low power level. I think this was the smartest decision the design team made. Cal is decidedly not a prequel style jedi-superhero. He can push and pull things around, he can slow things down for a brief second, and he can do a tiny little double jump. That's it. It helps distance the game from the utterly idiotic prequels, and makes Cal feel much more like Luke in terms of power level.

I just worry that they're gonna fuck it up with the sequel as he becomes more and more experienced.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

+Low power level. I think this was the smartest decision the design team made. Cal is decidedly not a prequel style jedi-superhero. He can push and pull things around, he can slow things down for a brief second, and he can do a tiny little double jump. That's it. It helps distance the game from the utterly idiotic prequels, and makes Cal feel much more like Luke in terms of power level.

I just worry that they're gonna fuck it up with the sequel as he becomes more and more experienced.

I think the way to go would be not making him the PC. Merrin, or some other force-sensitive could be the PC with Cal taking the role Cere played in the first game.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Would appreciate a Star Wars adventure where you play as someone who is not force sensitive for a change.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Would appreciate a Star Wars adventure where you play as someone who is not force sensitive for a change.

swtor class storylines

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Would appreciate a Star Wars adventure where you play as someone who is not force sensitive for a change.

swtor class storylines

Well yeah, but those stories don't make the combat any more tolerable.

 

[JDR13]

The decline started with the prequels where everyone and its grandma can use a lightsaber. It soon was all a clusterfuck of waving lightsabers with no sense or rhyme.

Yes. The only star wars media after the OT that really got the "Jedi are very rare and very OP" vibe is mandalorian

Funny thing is, if you go back and watch the prequels now, they almost seem awesome compared to the latest shit.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Mandalorian was pure shit too (S2), unless you're a SW geekoid. Last Star Wars thingie I truly liked was Revenge of the Sith.

 

[Zibniyat]

- The fucking slides. It's like someone played the slide levels from Mario 64 and decided they were the apex of game design. Jedi: Fallen Order has, no joke, about 50 of these slides and they all fucking suck a hairy butthole. God they're fucking terrible.

I think they were interesting and at least decent.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Spoiler

Star wars was never good.

 

[Riddler]

Lightsaber duels were cool in the SW-OT because they were few and far between, and the Jedi's lore was only hinted at, and never really exposed and hence trivialized.

The decline started with the prequels where everyone and its grandma can use a lightsaber. It soon was all a clusterfuck of waving lightsabers with no sense or rhyme.

The videogames declined too. With all those Jedi magic powers, SW became just another dumbed down power-fantasy series.

The original fights were cool because the fights themselves were secondary to what was actually happening, which was story building.

In the final duel with Vader, the actual fencing part was almost an after throught. It was all about Luke trying to resist the Dark Side, not falling to the Emperor, refusing to become another Vader etc.

Which is not to say there is no place for cool coreographies. The spear duel in the Hidden Forstress, the primary inspiration of lightsaber duels, was amazing, but even there the story played an important role.

Also, they are actually fighting, not dancing.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I have to push back against the idea that the prequels have been improved by the hindsight offered by the Disney movies*; they are all just absolute fucking dogshit. The Force Awakens is one of the worst movies I’ve ever sat through, and a solid 0/10, but it doesn’t change the fact that Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are, for different reasons, also total dogshit 0/10s. Revenge of the Sith is a movie slightly better than the dogshit that proceeded and preceded it, but no one wastes time lauding rabbit shit for smelling better than dogshit, because the point is moot; they’re both fucking shit.

The Last Jedi is probably the worst Star Wars movie, but it at least had ambition (that it executed on in a horrible, laughable Frankenstein manner). It also had terrific set and lighting design and generally good cinematography which goes a long way towards making a shit movie watchable for me. The character assassination and well-known plot holes are all... yeah, it’s a shit movie (but at least it’s pretty to watch in parts).

Honestly Solo is the only Disney SW thing that I haven’t hated. Admittedly I watched it drunk and I went into it fully expecting to hate-watch it, so when it turned out to be a solid 5/10 I was pleasantly surprised. Also I like Donald Glover.

Anyways, point is Disney SW is terrible, but free-reign Lucas SW is also terrible.




*I haven’t seen Episode IX or Rogue One

 

[Zibniyat]

Rogue One

I think you should give this one a chance, it's actually much more mature, down-to-earth serious and well-done in most aspects. There are no annoying "funny" clownish characters either, and - the focus wasn't on the Jedi and Sith. Of all the "new" movies, including Solo which I couldn't finish due to how awful it was in every way, Rogue One is by far the best and can even be said to be worth a watch.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Spoiler

Star wars was never good.

I know that it not saying much, but these are the Academy Awards won by the movies:

- Star Wars (1978): Best Original Score, Best Film Editing, Best Art Direction, Best Costume Design, Best Sound, Best Visual Effects, Special Achievement Awards.

- Empire Strikes Back (1981): Best Sound, Special Achievement Awards.

- Return of the Jedi (1983): Special Achievement Awards.

The rest...

- The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, The Force Awakens, Rogue One - A Star Wars Story, The Last Jedi, Solo - A Star Wars Story, The Rise of Skywalker: nothing.

Edit: to make a comparison, the Star Trek movies only won one Academy Award: Star Trek (2010), for Best Makeup.

Edit 2: as I said, this is not saying much, since 2001: a Space Odyssey didn't win any awards... But this movie cannot be even compared to SW or ST. Edit 3: My error, 2001 actually won the Best Special Visual Effects award.

 

[baud]

Rogue One

I think you should give this one a chance, it's actually much more mature, down-to-earth serious and well-done in most aspects. There are no annoying "funny" clownish characters either, and - the focus wasn't on the Jedi and Sith. Of all the "new" movies, including Solo which I couldn't finish due to how awful it was in every way, Rogue One is by far the best and can even be said to be worth a watch.

I found Rogue One better than Solo, at least. Less burdened by the fact it's an origin story, some nice visuals. Though they go rather heavy on the fact that it's a prequel to the original SW

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I’ve heard Rogue One is decent, and I will watch it eventually. My enthusiasm for anything new from the franchise is close to 0 though (hence why it took me so long to play this game), so it probably won’t be any time soon.

 

[poocolator]

Lightsaber duels were cool in the SW-OT because they were few and far between, and the Jedi's lore was only hinted at, and never really exposed and hence trivialized.

The decline started with the prequels where everyone and its grandma can use a lightsaber. It soon was all a clusterfuck of waving lightsabers with no sense or rhyme.

The videogames declined too. With all those Jedi magic powers, SW became just another dumbed down power-fantasy series.

The original fights were cool because the fights themselves were secondary to what was actually happening, which was story building.

In the final duel with Vader, the actual fencing part was almost an after throught. It was all about Luke trying to resist the Dark Side, not falling to the Emperor, refusing to become another Vader etc.

Which is not to say there is no place for cool coreographies. The spear duel in the Hidden Forstress, the primary inspiration of lightsaber duels, was amazing, but even there the story played an important role.

Yes, in the OT the duels were a vehicle for the story. In recent iterations, the story is a vehicle for duels.

 

[Yosharian]

Wait, extremely easy?

What the fuck

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Wait, extremely easy?

What the fuck

...Yes?

Once you’ve learned the parry windows to enemy attack animations and have found 4 or 5 stim upgrades there’s not much the game can do to take you out. I died once in the final boss fight and I died once or twice to the Zabraks on Dathomir, but again that was mostly do to just being on auto-pilot/getting impatient.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Rogue One is dogshit, avoid like the plague and don't believe anyone who says that it's decent.